WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:01.680 --> 00:00:04.530 Intro: There is nothing wrong with your podcast streaming service. 00:00:05.010 --> 00:00:06.390 We now control your device. 00:00:07.050 --> 00:00:08.310 This is not a test. 00:00:08.430 --> 00:00:10.500 This is podcast of the paranormal. 00:00:10.860 --> 00:00:13.560 Close your curtains and stay away from your windows. 00:00:13.890 --> 00:00:14.970 Lock your doors. 00:00:15.060 --> 00:00:16.260 Turn off your lights. 00:00:16.560 --> 00:00:18.360 Get your snacks and drinks ready. 00:00:18.630 --> 00:00:20.490 Get to your basement or attic. 00:00:20.970 --> 00:00:23.130 The podcast is about to begin. 00:00:27.817 --> 00:00:28.787 Gab: Hello everyone. 00:00:28.797 --> 00:00:34.657 We are here today with Paul Dulski, the host of Haunted Vermont. 00:00:35.007 --> 00:00:38.347 And we are very excited to have Paul all to ourself. 00:00:38.407 --> 00:00:41.947 Usually when we have him we're recording in a group, but today 00:00:41.947 --> 00:00:43.647 we get Paul all to ourself. 00:00:44.367 --> 00:00:47.317 So Paul, do you wanna tell us a little bit about yourself? 00:00:47.907 --> 00:00:48.627 Paul Dulski: Yeah, hi. 00:00:48.647 --> 00:00:53.371 My name is Paul, and I've been doing the Haunted Vermont thing, before the 00:00:53.371 --> 00:00:57.621 podcast, since, like, August 26th, 2012. 00:00:58.301 --> 00:01:01.921 So that's like 14 years, depending on when this episode gets aired. 00:01:01.931 --> 00:01:08.861 But yeah, um, the podcast kind of came into play around 2017, and that 00:01:08.861 --> 00:01:16.381 was after my lady and I were taking a break from Everything Horror podcast 00:01:16.411 --> 00:01:18.101 that we were, initially doing. 00:01:18.621 --> 00:01:21.881 But that was kind of getting slow to the point where we just 00:01:21.881 --> 00:01:23.991 wanted to try something different. 00:01:24.001 --> 00:01:26.261 So we figured spooky season was coming. 00:01:26.741 --> 00:01:29.741 We wanted to see how a Haunted Vermont podcast would do. 00:01:30.311 --> 00:01:35.131 At the beginning it was like everybody was thinking we were riffing on 00:01:35.181 --> 00:01:40.761 something else, when in reality, what podcast is not riffing on some podcast? 00:01:41.711 --> 00:01:45.541 We kind of found our voice, you know, I guess you could say, and 00:01:45.541 --> 00:01:52.011 then later on we got an idea from another member that maybe we could 00:01:52.021 --> 00:01:54.661 go beyond the Green Mountain State. 00:01:54.841 --> 00:01:58.371 So we kind of do a segment now that is Beyond Haunted Vermont, 00:01:58.491 --> 00:01:59.961 and that's pretty much about it 00:02:00.699 --> 00:02:01.229 Jody: Oh, cool. 00:02:01.517 --> 00:02:02.347 Gab: That's awesome. 00:02:02.547 --> 00:02:03.327 It's been a while. 00:02:03.337 --> 00:02:03.757 Wow. 00:02:04.757 --> 00:02:06.442 Jody: You got in, at that, that sweet point too 00:02:06.442 --> 00:02:08.602 when podcasts are starting to get like really big there, 00:02:08.902 --> 00:02:09.882 2016 around? 00:02:10.882 --> 00:02:11.342 Paul Dulski: Yup. 00:02:12.192 --> 00:02:17.882 Yeah, it was funny because, it was when I was kind of big into Spotify 00:02:17.942 --> 00:02:24.492 at the time and my friend who was not even in the States like put 00:02:24.492 --> 00:02:29.042 me onto like his family plan, so I didn't have to worry about paying 00:02:29.132 --> 00:02:31.502 anything for like a premium account. 00:02:32.002 --> 00:02:34.732 So I got to listen to like everything for free basically. 00:02:34.752 --> 00:02:38.292 But then Spotify was just like, "Uh, uh, uh." You know? 00:02:39.072 --> 00:02:44.112 And, um, but then they were saying like, you know, we're gonna be bringing 00:02:44.112 --> 00:02:48.652 in podcasts and that kind of became my routine, especially at work. 00:02:49.212 --> 00:02:53.552 I think that's why I prefer audiobooks now versus sitting down and reading 00:02:53.702 --> 00:02:59.112 at times just because when I do try to sit down and read, um, my cats are 00:02:59.112 --> 00:03:01.492 bugging me, my phone is blowing up. 00:03:01.642 --> 00:03:06.052 I just feel like I don't have the time to just, you know, just 00:03:06.352 --> 00:03:08.812 basically sit down and enjoy something 00:03:09.232 --> 00:03:12.346 Jody: yeah, that's kind of how I got into, uh, audiobooks and podcasts as well. 00:03:12.346 --> 00:03:13.906 I like to listen to something while I'm working. 00:03:14.476 --> 00:03:14.966 Gab: Same. 00:03:15.346 --> 00:03:17.596 Jody: Yeah, and it just, it just works a lot better than having 00:03:17.596 --> 00:03:19.026 to pick up a book and read. 00:03:19.066 --> 00:03:21.776 Like, I don't have time to sit there and flip through pages while I'm, physically, 00:03:21.776 --> 00:03:23.400 Using my hands at my job, you know? 00:03:23.806 --> 00:03:24.246 Paul Dulski: Right. 00:03:24.246 --> 00:03:24.566 Right. 00:03:24.916 --> 00:03:28.196 And sometimes though, I do like to grab the book that I'm 00:03:28.196 --> 00:03:30.126 listening to if I really enjoy it 00:03:30.814 --> 00:03:31.216 Jody: Yeah. 00:03:31.216 --> 00:03:32.926 For like reference to go back to it. 00:03:32.936 --> 00:03:33.176 Yeah. 00:03:33.176 --> 00:03:35.076 I love, I love books that- Yeah … yeah. 00:03:35.076 --> 00:03:37.736 I like books that are like, uh, reference material. 00:03:38.186 --> 00:03:40.606 You can pick up a chapter at a time, then if I ever have to go back to 00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:44.073 and, and read and refer to something I'm, you know, looking at at the 00:03:44.073 --> 00:03:45.153 time, interested in at the time. 00:03:45.153 --> 00:03:48.313 I, I like to have those like, you know, indexes to go back to look into and, 00:03:48.816 --> 00:03:49.306 Paul Dulski: Yep. 00:03:50.306 --> 00:03:54.176 Yeah, like, um, that's the one cool thing about audiobook too, right? 00:03:54.206 --> 00:03:57.996 Is you can clip them now to like a specific part, or you can like go 00:03:57.996 --> 00:04:02.426 back to like where you wanna take notes or whatever, re-listen to it 00:04:02.726 --> 00:04:03.216 Jody: Yeah. 00:04:03.466 --> 00:04:03.906 Yeah. 00:04:03.966 --> 00:04:07.346 I'm really into Kindle books too because of, uh, you know, like the bookmarking 00:04:07.346 --> 00:04:10.426 features and, you know, it doesn't take a lot of space up on the shelves. 00:04:10.426 --> 00:04:11.976 But I, I do like my physical copies. 00:04:11.996 --> 00:04:15.366 Like, I love the whole Tolkien set and, pretty much anything 00:04:15.366 --> 00:04:16.236 I'm really interested in. 00:04:16.256 --> 00:04:16.525 Yeah 00:04:17.123 --> 00:04:17.603 Paul Dulski: Yeah. 00:04:17.643 --> 00:04:21.113 Well, I find it sad that people need to realize that 00:04:21.153 --> 00:04:22.973 anything digital you don't own, 00:04:23.177 --> 00:04:23.757 Jody: I know 00:04:23.853 --> 00:04:26.663 Paul Dulski: You're just paying to rent a license basically. 00:04:26.723 --> 00:04:27.673 Jody: Yeah, I know 00:04:27.823 --> 00:04:30.423 Paul Dulski: And at any point in time they can take it away from you 00:04:31.409 --> 00:04:32.389 Gab: You sound like Jody. 00:04:32.399 --> 00:04:33.159 He says that 00:04:33.181 --> 00:04:33.247 Jody: yeah 00:04:33.257 --> 00:04:33.517 Gab: all the time. 00:04:33.643 --> 00:04:34.153 Jody: I do. 00:04:34.203 --> 00:04:35.333 I buy out of convenience. 00:04:35.333 --> 00:04:36.503 A lot of the times it's cheap. 00:04:36.503 --> 00:04:37.113 You know what I mean? 00:04:37.113 --> 00:04:38.343 Like, I could get a book for two bucks, 00:04:38.353 --> 00:04:38.383 Paul Dulski: Yep. 00:04:39.605 --> 00:04:40.779 Jody: You know, on, on Kindle. 00:04:40.779 --> 00:04:42.169 So what the heck, I'll do it, you know? 00:04:42.169 --> 00:04:45.325 But I find myself going back sometimes and buying the physical editions of the book. 00:04:45.487 --> 00:04:45.741 Gab: Yeah. 00:04:46.779 --> 00:04:49.989 Paul Dulski: I just went and just did a book sale yesterday at my place. 00:04:49.999 --> 00:04:51.209 So I mean, I feel you 00:04:51.709 --> 00:04:52.059 Jody: Yeah. 00:04:52.209 --> 00:04:52.779 So Paul, 00:04:53.187 --> 00:04:54.879 what got you into the paranormal? 00:04:55.379 --> 00:04:58.469 Paul Dulski: Well, I would say the paranormal found me. 00:04:58.469 --> 00:05:04.133 I wasn't really looking for it because, I mean, back when I was, little I still 00:05:04.243 --> 00:05:07.033 try to figure out if it was '94 or '95. 00:05:07.673 --> 00:05:13.113 For my sake, maybe it was '95 because of another event that had 00:05:13.113 --> 00:05:15.396 occurred that following year. 00:05:16.316 --> 00:05:24.406 So I guess what I'll say real quick is, in 1994, was the year that I first 00:05:24.606 --> 00:05:30.586 kinda got an idea of what death was, but I wasn't really able to comprehend 00:05:30.586 --> 00:05:32.356 it yet just because of how old I was. 00:05:32.810 --> 00:05:32.820 Jody: Mm-hmm. 00:05:33.296 --> 00:05:36.166 Paul Dulski: And, uh, that was my mother's dad. 00:05:36.586 --> 00:05:41.579 He kind of died because it was like a diabetes thing, but he was 00:05:41.589 --> 00:05:43.749 also getting his legs amputated. 00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:49.559 Like, it got so bad that his amputation were above his knees. 00:05:50.289 --> 00:05:56.623 And I felt so bad for that guy because he had served in the Army and he was 00:05:56.623 --> 00:06:01.003 a hard worker from what my mom was able to kinda tell me because all I 00:06:01.003 --> 00:06:06.883 can vaguely remember about her father is just, you know, the way he ended 00:06:07.113 --> 00:06:08.793 just because of how young I was. 00:06:08.833 --> 00:06:14.407 I don't really remember him, I just him just being in what would've been the 00:06:14.437 --> 00:06:20.864 dining room and just basically, like, in a hospital bed, sit up, amputated basically. 00:06:20.884 --> 00:06:22.704 Like, you know, like, Jesus Christ. 00:06:23.164 --> 00:06:24.714 Like, it's just so bad 00:06:25.118 --> 00:06:27.208 Jody: Yeah, like a hospice sort of situation? 00:06:27.673 --> 00:06:28.394 Paul Dulski: Exactly 00:06:28.718 --> 00:06:28.898 Jody: Yeah. 00:06:29.444 --> 00:06:35.545 Paul Dulski: So, then in ' I wanna say around June, within 24 hours 00:06:35.605 --> 00:06:41.415 apart, I had lost a uncle and a grandfather, unless it was reversed, 00:06:41.445 --> 00:06:43.015 'cause I really just don't remember. 00:06:43.015 --> 00:06:46.885 I just know within a 24-hour timeframe, I had lost an uncle and a 00:06:46.885 --> 00:06:48.375 grandfather or a grandfather or uncle 00:06:48.935 --> 00:06:49.615 Jody: Oh my God 00:06:50.645 --> 00:06:54.125 Paul Dulski: and the weird part about that is, they were both sharing 00:06:54.155 --> 00:06:56.505 like the same hospital like room. 00:06:56.855 --> 00:07:00.585 So it was just like, could you imagine one of them going out 00:07:00.585 --> 00:07:02.415 of the room and not coming back? 00:07:02.445 --> 00:07:04.475 And it's like, what would the other one thinking? 00:07:04.475 --> 00:07:05.445 It's like, oh shit. 00:07:05.765 --> 00:07:05.949 You know. 00:07:05.999 --> 00:07:06.219 Jody: Yeah 00:07:06.745 --> 00:07:10.185 Paul Dulski: I could only imagine what that was like for the other one. 00:07:10.735 --> 00:07:16.135 So I would say from there is when I real- it really opened my eyes of like what 00:07:16.855 --> 00:07:20.515 life kinda brings as you grow older. 00:07:21.405 --> 00:07:26.885 Which now that I think about it, I wonder if that may have been some of 00:07:26.895 --> 00:07:32.875 the trauma or something that maybe led to the whole weird like missing 00:07:32.885 --> 00:07:38.295 doorknob door now that I really do look at it and have talked to other people. 00:07:39.035 --> 00:07:45.475 But it's still bizarre either way of what then, uh, that event, uh, happened, 00:07:45.475 --> 00:07:50.975 especially when my sister and I first had our own taste of like the Ouija board 00:07:51.975 --> 00:07:52.165 Jody: All right. 00:07:52.165 --> 00:07:52.885 Well, let, let's see. 00:07:52.905 --> 00:07:55.375 I've heard, you talk about the doorknob a few times. 00:07:55.945 --> 00:07:56.065 Okay. 00:07:56.065 --> 00:07:58.475 I never really got the, the, the full story, but I hear you bring 00:07:58.475 --> 00:07:59.275 it up every once in a while. 00:07:59.275 --> 00:08:00.855 Could you give us a quick little rundown of that? 00:08:00.855 --> 00:08:02.155 Paul Dulski: it was pitch black. 00:08:03.125 --> 00:08:08.575 And a kid should remember their old bedroom, or at least I do. 00:08:09.125 --> 00:08:10.705 And I only had one bedroom. 00:08:10.855 --> 00:08:15.425 But in this particular night, it was like I shot out of bed. 00:08:15.735 --> 00:08:19.575 I could not see my hand in front of my face or anything. 00:08:20.365 --> 00:08:25.395 And I remember, like, going to where the door should be, and I'm 00:08:25.415 --> 00:08:30.645 feeling what I thought was either the door or wall or whatever. 00:08:30.645 --> 00:08:37.371 Because my door was also, like, like right by the weird divider in the wall 00:08:37.451 --> 00:08:43.251 of, like, a older home where it has, like, a, uh, like a wood divider of the walls. 00:08:43.331 --> 00:08:48.171 And anyway, right near that divider would be my closet. 00:08:48.861 --> 00:08:50.631 So that's how close I was. 00:08:50.691 --> 00:08:55.671 But I, but, like, I was going up and down with my hand, left and right, 00:08:55.911 --> 00:08:57.771 and I could not find my doorknob. 00:08:58.461 --> 00:09:02.101 And it was freaking me out to the point where I thought I was banging on the 00:09:02.261 --> 00:09:05.511 wall or door, but without a handle. 00:09:05.511 --> 00:09:07.481 Or maybe it was just a wall. 00:09:07.481 --> 00:09:11.301 I mean, I don't really know what happened because it was just that dark. 00:09:11.981 --> 00:09:16.831 Long story short, at one point my mother opened the door. 00:09:17.301 --> 00:09:22.511 And what was weird was, she was more to my left. 00:09:22.871 --> 00:09:26.761 So, like, I was almost, like you could say, touching my closet, but 00:09:26.761 --> 00:09:31.101 I couldn't feel the closet, like, touching my right arm or shoulder, 00:09:31.151 --> 00:09:32.611 if, if that makes any sense. 00:09:33.001 --> 00:09:33.361 Jody: Okay 00:09:33.501 --> 00:09:36.521 Paul Dulski: So it was like I was in the general area feeling for the 00:09:36.521 --> 00:09:39.431 doorknob, but it was just wasn't there 00:09:39.931 --> 00:09:40.551 Gab: Yeah. 00:09:41.551 --> 00:09:43.181 That's gotta be a scary experience as a little kid. 00:09:43.181 --> 00:09:43.317 You're in the dark. 00:09:43.317 --> 00:09:43.617 Jody: Yeah. 00:09:43.617 --> 00:09:44.827 I mean, you're, you're, you're used 00:09:44.827 --> 00:09:46.317 to feeling around in the dark, right? 00:09:46.327 --> 00:09:46.347 Yeah. 00:09:46.347 --> 00:09:48.767 And you're expecting that door handle to be where it is and… 00:09:48.927 --> 00:09:51.477 Now, did you ever consider that you were, uh, possibly asleep? 00:09:52.522 --> 00:09:52.577 I 00:09:52.577 --> 00:09:53.852 know it's a silly question, but 00:09:54.725 --> 00:09:56.275 Paul Dulski: I was definitely not asleep. 00:09:56.635 --> 00:10:00.179 If I was, I couldn't… I mean, if it were pitch black, I couldn't 00:10:00.179 --> 00:10:03.749 really say if I was having some sort of sleep paralysis because I couldn't 00:10:03.819 --> 00:10:06.368 see myself sleeping on the bed. 00:10:06.560 --> 00:10:11.787 But, I just remember being frantic enough where even when I was trying 00:10:11.787 --> 00:10:15.797 to look out my only window, it was just like it was just pure dark 00:10:16.247 --> 00:10:16.777 Gab: Yeah. 00:10:17.144 --> 00:10:18.837 Jody: Yeah, it's a strange experience. 00:10:18.885 --> 00:10:19.349 Gab: Yeah. 00:10:19.479 --> 00:10:21.199 Like you're in your room but you're not in your room 00:10:21.775 --> 00:10:22.575 Paul Dulski: Exactly. 00:10:22.669 --> 00:10:23.049 Gab: Yeah. 00:10:23.505 --> 00:10:29.285 Paul Dulski: And I just, I just felt it was so weird because, I mean, there, there 00:10:29.285 --> 00:10:34.105 were times when I was little when I used to be excited for like Christmas morning. 00:10:34.525 --> 00:10:40.735 I would literally wake up at like 2:00, 2:30 in the morning, open up my door 00:10:40.985 --> 00:10:44.375 and go straight to my sister's room to be like, "Wake up, wake up. We gotta 00:10:44.375 --> 00:10:48.905 go get our mom and dad so we can go get presents." You know, and stuff like that. 00:10:48.955 --> 00:10:49.785 I was that kid. 00:10:50.757 --> 00:10:51.237 Gab: Yeah 00:10:51.495 --> 00:10:54.705 Paul Dulski: if I could find a doorknob that easily during Christmas time, 00:10:54.705 --> 00:10:56.055 I don't know what this was all about 00:10:56.265 --> 00:10:57.285 Jody: I think we were all that kid. 00:10:58.049 --> 00:10:58.549 Gab: Yeah. 00:10:59.203 --> 00:10:59.673 Paul Dulski: Right. 00:11:01.355 --> 00:11:01.725 Gab: yeah. 00:11:01.755 --> 00:11:04.995 That's like something where you think like your muscle memory would 00:11:04.995 --> 00:11:09.865 just, you know, take over and you should be able to find your doorknob. 00:11:10.533 --> 00:11:10.713 Jody: Well, 00:11:10.713 --> 00:11:12.313 that's why I asked about the sleeping- Yeah. 00:11:12.323 --> 00:11:15.683 Because it seems like a dream state, like he was almost in a dream state, you know? 00:11:15.753 --> 00:11:15.993 Gab: Yeah. 00:11:16.479 --> 00:11:18.092 Paul Dulski: well, I thought of that too. 00:11:18.412 --> 00:11:23.812 But I wasn't asleep because if my mom was the one that would we open the 00:11:23.842 --> 00:11:28.052 door and then she would just like, "Why the hell are you banging on the wall 00:11:28.062 --> 00:11:29.472 or the door?" Or whatever the hell. 00:11:29.742 --> 00:11:31.602 Jody: She opens the door and Paul just falls out. 00:11:31.626 --> 00:11:31.806 Gab: Yeah. 00:11:33.204 --> 00:11:34.454 Paul Dulski: Yeah, I didn't even fall out. 00:11:34.504 --> 00:11:38.114 I almost thought I was gonna clock her in the head, but I wasn't because 00:11:38.114 --> 00:11:42.484 I was actually hitting the, uh, the door frame or the wall or something. 00:11:42.704 --> 00:11:43.364 It was weird. 00:11:44.233 --> 00:11:49.213 Gab: So, you've basically had, right, like a lifetime of paranormal experiences. 00:11:49.693 --> 00:11:53.193 So what do you think that ghosts are? 00:11:54.193 --> 00:11:57.413 Paul Dulski: I mean, there's definitely, um, there's definitely 00:11:57.423 --> 00:12:02.973 ghosts that leave that residual recordings of themselves for sure. 00:12:03.323 --> 00:12:08.326 And then there's some where obviously we can intelligently, uh, interact with. 00:12:08.876 --> 00:12:14.056 Honestly it's hard to say because it's like, is the residual just 00:12:14.416 --> 00:12:18.926 recording and then therefore they're just always gonna be there because of 00:12:19.346 --> 00:12:23.956 how much blood or torment or whatever happened in the area happened, and 00:12:24.076 --> 00:12:25.716 that it was just pretty much recorded. 00:12:26.276 --> 00:12:31.676 Like Gettysburg for example, like I don't know why but when I was in middle 00:12:31.676 --> 00:12:38.016 school I had a big fascination with the War of, Gettysburg and stuff like that. 00:12:38.126 --> 00:12:40.616 I did, I remember doing reports on that. 00:12:41.006 --> 00:12:46.116 Hell, like over the weekend when I was at that book sale, I just found, I 00:12:46.116 --> 00:12:49.926 didn't pick it up but I probably really should have, but it was like a two-volume 00:12:49.976 --> 00:12:53.926 Civil War picture historical book thing. 00:12:54.546 --> 00:12:57.596 But, yeah, it's just always just been a fascination to me. 00:12:57.666 --> 00:13:00.796 And I never actually shared this so you guys are gonna be the 00:13:00.796 --> 00:13:02.135 first to actually hear this. 00:13:02.636 --> 00:13:08.016 But there was a long time ago where I had a random message get sent to me. 00:13:08.796 --> 00:13:12.686 And they're, uh, it kind of started it weird, and they're just like, "You 00:13:12.686 --> 00:13:17.296 know what you remind me of?" And they sent this picture of this little boy. 00:13:18.146 --> 00:13:23.536 And I'm just like, "Okay." And then they go on and say, "This was a, uh, 00:13:23.596 --> 00:13:28.686 like a drummer boy for like the Civil War era." It's like, "You look exactly 00:13:28.686 --> 00:13:34.386 like him." And I'm, at the time was like, "I don't see the resemblance." So, 00:13:35.106 --> 00:13:39.836 but maybe, maybe there was and I just was too stupid to, you know, see it. 00:13:39.846 --> 00:13:43.226 But I mean, there is a possibility of reincarnation believe. 00:13:43.226 --> 00:13:48.289 so I mean, there are some interesting events that have led me to believe 00:13:48.289 --> 00:13:51.999 about reincarnation as well but yeah, I, I just think ghosts in 00:13:51.999 --> 00:13:53.749 general, it's, I, I don't know. 00:13:53.749 --> 00:14:01.239 It depends on, uh, I guess what your thoughts of the phenomenon to begin 00:14:01.239 --> 00:14:06.009 with I think is what is considered real and what is considered more 00:14:06.019 --> 00:14:07.369 than what meets the eye, I guess. 00:14:08.079 --> 00:14:08.499 Gab: Yeah. 00:14:09.143 --> 00:14:12.653 Jody: Yeah, I feel like your upbringing too, like your religious background really 00:14:12.663 --> 00:14:12.723 Gab: yeah your culture 00:14:12.723 --> 00:14:13.983 Jody: plays into it a lot 00:14:14.487 --> 00:14:14.787 Paul Dulski: Yeah. 00:14:14.787 --> 00:14:19.097 I was born in like a, a Roman Catholic background. 00:14:19.587 --> 00:14:25.173 So that lasted until up my, up until my father passed away in 2003. 00:14:26.173 --> 00:14:34.583 And that was when I had noticed that my father had some sort of witchcraft 00:14:34.653 --> 00:14:42.923 book, but I could never, uh, get ahold of that book because of my, um, oh, God. 00:14:43.003 --> 00:14:46.703 Uh, my aunt at the time, I'm just gonna say, 'cause the other 00:14:46.703 --> 00:14:50.303 version I usually is not really, uh, probably good for a podcast. 00:14:50.693 --> 00:14:53.883 So anyway, well, life is what it is. 00:14:53.903 --> 00:14:58.903 But yeah, let's just say our aunt really didn't see eye to eye for us anymore. 00:14:58.903 --> 00:15:04.943 But anyway, I think she got rid of it I never forgot when, I asked my 00:15:04.943 --> 00:15:10.043 mom when she would go to, you know, work on the house to see what to get 00:15:10.043 --> 00:15:11.573 rid of, what to keep or whatever. 00:15:12.073 --> 00:15:14.573 I kind of was mentioning about this book. 00:15:14.603 --> 00:15:18.383 I said, "Hey, if you come across like this white cover book, it says something 00:15:18.383 --> 00:15:22.053 involving witchcraft on it, can you grab it for me, please? I'm just curious." 00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:22.869 Jody: Mm-hmm. 00:15:23.083 --> 00:15:26.523 Paul Dulski: And my mom had asked my aunt about that, and my aunt was 00:15:26.793 --> 00:15:31.273 basically w- like, "Oh, he doesn't need that. He's already weird enough." 00:15:31.293 --> 00:15:34.553 And I'm like, "Oh, okay. Thanks." 00:15:35.553 --> 00:15:36.713 Gab: Oh, that's terrible. 00:15:37.103 --> 00:15:40.911 Jody: Yeah, I, I think, uh, for me, if I could throw my two cents into the cup, 00:15:41.011 --> 00:15:43.273 I was raised Roman Catholic as well. 00:15:44.301 --> 00:15:49.391 And anything that had to do with the paranormal or hauntings 00:15:49.431 --> 00:15:53.621 or, you know, anything that's taboo, uh, was kind of off limits. 00:15:54.301 --> 00:15:58.118 So I was always raised to believe that if there was a ghost haunting, 00:15:58.118 --> 00:16:03.065 a place, that it was almost like leftover, like it had unfinished business. 00:16:03.728 --> 00:16:08.898 And I have, drastically changed my opinion on that because I just think it's a 00:16:08.898 --> 00:16:11.658 horrible thing to believe that these are, 00:16:11.668 --> 00:16:14.358 you know, human beings that have passed and they're just, 00:16:14.905 --> 00:16:18.447 they're suffering because they have, something they didn't finish in life, 00:16:18.447 --> 00:16:21.206 or they were, bad people in their life and they're just sticking around. 00:16:21.206 --> 00:16:21.656 You know what I mean? 00:16:21.656 --> 00:16:23.296 I just don't buy into that anymore. 00:16:27.140 --> 00:16:30.122 Paul Dulski: Yeah, I was gonna say, I know, I know how you feel about that. 00:16:30.132 --> 00:16:34.252 Certain people do not deserve to stay here in, in that aspect. 00:16:34.282 --> 00:16:40.672 But, um, I feel like if you wanted to say goodbye to your loved one for 00:16:40.672 --> 00:16:45.452 the final time and you didn't get a chance to, I think that would help 00:16:46.132 --> 00:16:50.362 stir the pot of that subject, like of that, statement a little bit. 00:16:50.842 --> 00:16:56.572 Just because if you're also, like myself at the time, like when my 00:16:56.572 --> 00:17:00.592 dad passed away, I didn't ex- I couldn't really accept it right away. 00:17:00.850 --> 00:17:01.083 Jody: Right. 00:17:01.392 --> 00:17:06.622 Paul Dulski: And, um, I do feel like because I couldn't accept it right 00:17:06.622 --> 00:17:11.162 away, he probably was still hanging around because I just could not let 00:17:11.162 --> 00:17:15.582 it go that my dad was gone, and I was never gonna be able to see him again. 00:17:16.142 --> 00:17:22.982 Because I think what broke my heart the most before his passing is six 00:17:23.032 --> 00:17:31.062 months before he had passed, we hadn't seen him because of some weird reason. 00:17:31.092 --> 00:17:32.172 I can't remember. 00:17:32.352 --> 00:17:36.442 Uh, it was like a weird conflict with schedule or just something. 00:17:36.574 --> 00:17:36.824 Jody: Yep 00:17:37.262 --> 00:17:40.022 Paul Dulski: And we just didn't see him for six months. 00:17:40.062 --> 00:17:45.552 But we did call each other like on the phone and stuff just to talk that way. 00:17:45.632 --> 00:17:51.652 But the day that he had heard that he was gonna finally be able to, you know, see 00:17:51.652 --> 00:17:58.012 us again for a weekend, he got so excited and everything, and then it was just sad 00:17:58.022 --> 00:18:04.332 of what happened just bec- because, uh, basically what it was was a heart attack. 00:18:04.450 --> 00:18:04.840 Jody: Yeah 00:18:04.952 --> 00:18:08.452 Paul Dulski: He went to go to a doctor's appointment that following 00:18:08.452 --> 00:18:12.082 morning because he had chest pain. 00:18:12.932 --> 00:18:15.342 And when he got into his pickup truck, that's when he 00:18:15.352 --> 00:18:16.642 was having the heart attack. 00:18:16.722 --> 00:18:23.252 And what, uh, sucked, like is hearing what had happened, I think, 00:18:23.262 --> 00:18:25.452 and actually seeing the aftermath. 00:18:26.012 --> 00:18:30.812 I think that kind of stuck with me throughout the years because, uh, what 00:18:30.812 --> 00:18:36.402 happened was w- he was able to put the pickup truck in reverse and because 00:18:36.402 --> 00:18:41.162 of his chest, you know, throbbing I'm assuming, you know, it got to the point 00:18:41.162 --> 00:18:45.912 where he had his foot on the pedal to the ground in reverse, mind you. 00:18:46.260 --> 00:18:46.740 Jody: Oh man 00:18:47.002 --> 00:18:52.002 Paul Dulski: So he came back into his lawn and basically stopped the, his 00:18:52.062 --> 00:18:56.642 pickup truck because it slammed into the camper that he had in his lawn. 00:18:57.122 --> 00:19:00.428 The camper moved like a good 10 feet backward. 00:19:01.250 --> 00:19:01.560 Jody: Oh, wow 00:19:01.838 --> 00:19:02.968 Paul Dulski: That was the aftermath. 00:19:03.518 --> 00:19:11.908 So I personally think for the unfinished business part is that they 00:19:11.938 --> 00:19:18.008 can't fully go unless… It's either they have the unfinished business, 00:19:18.398 --> 00:19:19.658 which I don't think my dad did. 00:19:19.658 --> 00:19:20.516 I think he was just 00:19:20.566 --> 00:19:20.986 Jody: Right 00:19:21.768 --> 00:19:25.768 Paul Dulski: probably lingering because I was probably having a hard time 00:19:25.768 --> 00:19:27.418 with it and just not accepting it. 00:19:27.998 --> 00:19:33.948 But like three years later, um, I, I had accepted it, and I do feel like 00:19:33.948 --> 00:19:42.768 there was a small shift, um, I don't know if his presence was necessarily, 00:19:43.768 --> 00:19:47.598 um, as strong as it was, I guess. 00:19:47.948 --> 00:19:51.328 Almost like a way of saying like, "Hey, it's okay." Like, "I'm not in 00:19:51.328 --> 00:19:56.148 pain, but, you know, you need to just accept so I can move on," kind of thing 00:19:56.598 --> 00:19:59.042 Jody: Yeah, I almost feel like it's kind of like, how human 00:19:59.042 --> 00:20:00.602 beings process guilt too, right? 00:20:00.822 --> 00:20:02.172 How much do we put into that? 00:20:02.192 --> 00:20:02.622 You know? 00:20:02.682 --> 00:20:04.602 How much are we putting into the haunting, you know? 00:20:05.035 --> 00:20:05.535 Paul Dulski: Right. 00:20:05.835 --> 00:20:11.875 Well, the reason why I say that is, like, after he had passed, there was 00:20:11.995 --> 00:20:18.655 a, there was a night where it was like 2:30, 3:00 in the morning and all of 00:20:18.655 --> 00:20:24.425 a sudden I was, uh, awakened because I could hear my name in a whisper. 00:20:24.795 --> 00:20:26.115 Like, like "Paul". 00:20:26.765 --> 00:20:31.025 And, and I woke up out of like a dead asleep kind of thing. 00:20:31.035 --> 00:20:34.075 Like a, I don't know if you guys know the term, like, dead wood, 00:20:34.565 --> 00:20:37.565 like nothing can wake you up when you're that much into sleep. 00:20:38.315 --> 00:20:41.788 So I woke up and of course I kind of called out. 00:20:41.788 --> 00:20:46.708 I was like, "Hello?" And, you know, expecting like my mom or something. 00:20:46.788 --> 00:20:52.588 And it wasn't my mom, 'cause she was sound asleep in her room because her, uh, dog 00:20:52.588 --> 00:20:56.268 at the time was also up with her snoring. 00:20:57.268 --> 00:21:00.198 And then so I was just like, well, maybe it was my sister. 00:21:00.818 --> 00:21:05.048 So I went to where her room should be, and she is passed out snoring. 00:21:05.098 --> 00:21:10.382 So I'll, I was like, "That's weird." There was another incident which I can't 00:21:10.382 --> 00:21:15.131 really say this was my dad, but it was still fricking weird to begin with. 00:21:15.721 --> 00:21:20.672 It involved, uh, a wintertime and I was trying to get ready 00:21:20.712 --> 00:21:24.901 to go to bed for school the next day, I believe is what it was. 00:21:25.681 --> 00:21:32.002 But whatever reason, it was like something started to knock on 00:21:32.002 --> 00:21:38.171 my bedroom window to the point where I, you know, woke up again. 00:21:38.781 --> 00:21:43.762 But this time my mother and her boyfriend at the time both heard that. 00:21:44.442 --> 00:21:49.201 So her boyfriend went outside to go investigate, and he 00:21:49.201 --> 00:21:50.712 came back in and he goes, 00:21:51.361 --> 00:21:55.291 " There's no footsteps leading to your window." And I'm like, "That's 00:21:55.541 --> 00:22:02.275 weird." And then the final time I ever heard my voice was, 2008. 00:22:03.005 --> 00:22:08.395 It was in my first ever, apartment by myself and my roommate was not home 00:22:09.055 --> 00:22:10.885 because he was on the graveyard shift. 00:22:10.885 --> 00:22:15.275 So I was the only one in the apartment, sleeping so I could 00:22:15.275 --> 00:22:16.715 go to work in the morning. 00:22:17.475 --> 00:22:22.235 And that was the last time I heard my voice trying to 00:22:22.705 --> 00:22:24.435 call me, like, in a whisper. 00:22:24.815 --> 00:22:27.725 But this time it was like I already, since it happened before, 00:22:28.155 --> 00:22:29.565 I was already expecting it. 00:22:29.905 --> 00:22:34.525 So when that happened for the second time, I shot up and I was just like, 00:22:34.525 --> 00:22:40.375 "Yes, what do you want? I'm trying to sleep." And I was just like, you 00:22:40.375 --> 00:22:42.075 know, there was no response again. 00:22:42.125 --> 00:22:45.965 And so I'm just like, "I'm just going back to bed." So I don't, I don't know 00:22:45.965 --> 00:22:48.715 what the second one was about, but yeah, 00:22:49.113 --> 00:22:49.893 Jody: Man, it's funny. 00:22:50.195 --> 00:22:52.475 It's funny how that happens when you hear, you hear something like that. 00:22:52.475 --> 00:22:52.905 You experience 00:22:52.905 --> 00:22:55.415 something, your, your, your first reaction is to say, Oh, well. 00:22:55.425 --> 00:22:58.525 I'm going back to bed." And I think a lot of us do that 00:22:59.205 --> 00:23:01.335 Paul Dulski: Yeah, and that's the voice, the voices and the 00:23:01.335 --> 00:23:03.115 weird bang on the window story. 00:23:03.145 --> 00:23:11.205 But, um, when, so 2006, I was, in North Clarendon here in Vermont. 00:23:11.315 --> 00:23:13.695 And we have a place called, like, the swinging bridge. 00:23:14.185 --> 00:23:19.555 It was a beautiful area right before Hurricane Irene kinda destroyed it. 00:23:20.485 --> 00:23:28.365 And there was this area of, of like a swimming hole where you could go a few 00:23:28.375 --> 00:23:32.875 ways to it, but we took the, probably the stupidest way where you had to 00:23:32.885 --> 00:23:36.075 be very careful and yada, yada, yada. 00:23:36.115 --> 00:23:40.105 Well anyway, me and a couple friends were camping the night 00:23:40.105 --> 00:23:42.205 prior, so it had rained overnight. 00:23:43.175 --> 00:23:47.975 And I was behind my friend getting down into the swimming hole. 00:23:48.285 --> 00:23:52.515 He got down perfectly fine, but somehow I had to be the one to find 00:23:52.515 --> 00:23:54.795 the slippery slope, as I called it. 00:23:55.245 --> 00:23:58.005 Could not catch myself at all. 00:23:58.315 --> 00:24:02.525 I was literally spinning 180 in the air. 00:24:02.925 --> 00:24:09.125 And I can see why people have that like, you know, time seemed to slow 00:24:09.125 --> 00:24:14.085 down, because that's what it really felt like in that, that moment right before 00:24:14.085 --> 00:24:18.518 the great big bang at the end where I landed, on shallow rocks and water 00:24:18.528 --> 00:24:20.518 like I was sitting in a lawn chair. 00:24:21.378 --> 00:24:26.918 And the only thing was that I had walked it off with just a 00:24:26.918 --> 00:24:28.708 sprained ankle and a couple cuts. 00:24:29.235 --> 00:24:33.495 My two other friends were thinking I was gonna be dead and they were gonna 00:24:33.505 --> 00:24:36.145 have to tell my mother what happened. 00:24:36.488 --> 00:24:44.815 So, I always believe that possibly my father was looking after me at that time, 00:24:44.905 --> 00:24:48.925 just because that was around the time when I was graduating from high school. 00:24:49.405 --> 00:24:55.465 That was around also the same time where I was accepting his death and, 00:24:55.515 --> 00:25:01.305 um, just allowing it to process better than what it was back in 2003 00:25:02.081 --> 00:25:02.311 Jody: Yeah. 00:25:03.311 --> 00:25:10.571 Gab: So Paul, how do you think hauntings differ from places like Vermont or even 00:25:10.571 --> 00:25:16.161 New England as a whole versus like here in pennsylvania or the rest of the country? 00:25:17.161 --> 00:25:17.741 Paul Dulski: Differ. 00:25:17.871 --> 00:25:18.271 Hmm. 00:25:19.671 --> 00:25:25.101 Um, well, there is obviously differences location-wise and stuff like that. 00:25:25.101 --> 00:25:28.191 But as a whole, I think everything is connected in one 00:25:28.191 --> 00:25:30.761 way or some form of another. 00:25:31.371 --> 00:25:37.121 I mean, every state almost has the same phenomenon, and it always 00:25:37.481 --> 00:25:40.211 has basically the same story. 00:25:41.051 --> 00:25:45.461 But, you know, just change the names and the location and yada, yada, yada, and 00:25:45.461 --> 00:25:47.621 then it almost sounds the same, I guess. 00:25:48.281 --> 00:25:55.051 Um, I'm trying to think if I have an example for you, but, uh, right now 00:25:55.101 --> 00:25:56.501 I can't really think of something 00:25:56.681 --> 00:25:59.381 to really give a, have a, uh, good example 00:25:59.921 --> 00:26:03.316 Gab: Yeah, I always think like you guys in Vermont, right? 00:26:03.316 --> 00:26:04.446 You have your vampires. 00:26:04.946 --> 00:26:07.086 In New England as a whole, right? 00:26:07.126 --> 00:26:10.396 Connecticut, Massachusetts, there's the witch trials. 00:26:10.703 --> 00:26:14.496 Here in Pennsylvania we have like some Civil War, we have some 00:26:14.506 --> 00:26:16.766 like Revolutionary War residue. 00:26:17.376 --> 00:26:21.486 In the South you have like that blending, like the Southern Gothic 00:26:21.806 --> 00:26:23.856 where all those cultures come together. 00:26:24.446 --> 00:26:25.576 And then you have that 00:26:25.576 --> 00:26:30.419 like, you know, perfect mix in Appalachia where you get the 00:26:30.429 --> 00:26:32.939 ancient land that is kind of 00:26:32.939 --> 00:26:35.859 like the, you know, the breeding ground for those hauntings. 00:26:37.259 --> 00:26:37.369 Jody: Appalachia is just weird. 00:26:37.369 --> 00:26:37.549 Gab: Yeah. 00:26:37.549 --> 00:26:40.089 And then you have the, the west. 00:26:40.659 --> 00:26:42.979 It's just that… open frontier, right? 00:26:43.019 --> 00:26:45.829 All that open space, that flat land. 00:26:45.859 --> 00:26:48.009 And you get like all those wild west spirits. 00:26:48.009 --> 00:26:50.219 You get the UAPs, you get, you know? 00:26:51.297 --> 00:26:51.487 Jody: And the mining. 00:26:51.487 --> 00:26:53.711 All the silver mines and all that stuff they had out, out that way. 00:26:53.781 --> 00:26:54.135 Gab: Yeah. 00:26:54.468 --> 00:26:58.118 It's like our side we get like residual hauntings whereas in the west 00:26:58.138 --> 00:27:01.498 they get like that more active haunting 00:27:02.498 --> 00:27:03.028 Paul Dulski: Right. 00:27:03.188 --> 00:27:08.628 So now that you kinda bring that up in that way, um, so you guys have, 00:27:08.888 --> 00:27:13.108 I'm assuming, like an old ghost town per se like with the mining, the 00:27:13.148 --> 00:27:14.838 tree logging and stuff like that. 00:27:15.118 --> 00:27:18.388 We have something similar down south here in, uh, Bennington. 00:27:19.078 --> 00:27:25.388 There used to be tree logging and that ran out of timber so 00:27:25.398 --> 00:27:26.808 they had to shut that down. 00:27:27.808 --> 00:27:32.964 A- and, they made a, or they tried to make a casino out of that, of the 00:27:32.984 --> 00:27:34.854 like remaining buildings at the time. 00:27:34.864 --> 00:27:39.764 But when they tried to open the casino it didn't last long because 00:27:39.764 --> 00:27:41.374 it got wiped out by a flood. 00:27:42.284 --> 00:27:47.374 And then down south is also known for our infamous missing 00:27:47.374 --> 00:27:49.511 people and stuff like that. 00:27:50.034 --> 00:27:50.361 Gab: Yeah. 00:27:50.786 --> 00:27:52.164 And the Bennington Triangle 00:27:53.054 --> 00:27:53.574 Paul Dulski: Yes. 00:27:54.094 --> 00:27:54.494 Yes. 00:27:54.874 --> 00:28:00.134 and then you guys have like that similar thing too, where like us, 00:28:00.184 --> 00:28:04.584 like with the, the spook lights, you guys have experienced it. 00:28:05.081 --> 00:28:10.661 See, what's funny about this is I found an old video of when we were 00:28:10.661 --> 00:28:16.081 at Hubbardton Battlefield, and after re-listening to that again, I can't 00:28:16.081 --> 00:28:20.511 remember if I actually ever looked up to see these lights that the two other 00:28:21.151 --> 00:28:25.711 team members at the time were seeing, or if I was just too hyper-focused on 00:28:25.711 --> 00:28:31.341 the camera of the other equipment that was there, just to make sure I'm not, I 00:28:31.341 --> 00:28:34.011 wasn't like not seeing something go off. 00:28:34.579 --> 00:28:34.911 Jody: Yeah 00:28:34.921 --> 00:28:39.851 Paul Dulski: So I, I, I would personally would like to say, yes, I 00:28:39.861 --> 00:28:45.701 have seen these spook lights before, but I can't 100% say that I did in 00:28:45.751 --> 00:28:50.601 fact see these lights that, that the two friends of mine saw at the time. 00:28:50.761 --> 00:28:55.541 So it kinda makes me sad, because it's like maybe I could have seen these spook 00:28:55.541 --> 00:29:00.721 lights around here, but it would have been in a completely different place. 00:29:00.751 --> 00:29:07.241 But more I read about these spook lights now, and from actually hearing 00:29:07.291 --> 00:29:11.821 from a new eyewitness who lives up in the northeastern kingdom of 00:29:11.931 --> 00:29:19.081 Vermont, which is more weirder stuff, um, there's spook lights up in the 00:29:19.081 --> 00:29:22.767 northern eastern kingdom, it seems too. 00:29:23.377 --> 00:29:29.857 So it's almost like there's spook lights in the north Vermont area, there's 00:29:29.867 --> 00:29:35.207 spook lights in the south Vermont area, and I'm trying to figure out maybe 00:29:35.257 --> 00:29:40.047 almost in the middle of Vermont there is, in fact, some spook lights too, 00:29:40.357 --> 00:29:46.897 if we go by where this, battlefield is that I, uh, have investigated. 00:29:47.297 --> 00:29:52.277 So it's kinda interesting to see that sort of, I guess you could say pattern, 00:29:52.347 --> 00:29:56.677 'cause you guys over there, you guys got Gettysburg, which is, uh, what? 00:29:56.687 --> 00:29:58.047 That's South Pennsylvania. 00:29:58.224 --> 00:29:58.621 Gab: Yeah. 00:29:58.747 --> 00:30:00.587 Paul Dulski: And then where you guys are, what's that? 00:30:00.767 --> 00:30:02.337 Western Pennsylvania 00:30:02.520 --> 00:30:02.820 Gab: northeast 00:30:02.820 --> 00:30:03.311 Paul Dulski: or eastern. 00:30:03.344 --> 00:30:03.587 Jody: Yeah. 00:30:03.587 --> 00:30:04.087 Northeast. 00:30:04.087 --> 00:30:04.297 Yep. 00:30:04.667 --> 00:30:05.007 Yeah, 00:30:05.037 --> 00:30:07.097 We're up by, the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre area 00:30:07.561 --> 00:30:07.891 Gab: Yeah. 00:30:08.891 --> 00:30:12.951 Paul Dulski: So I had a few people on about Chestnut Ridge. 00:30:12.951 --> 00:30:16.601 So from where you guys are, can you just clarify for me how far 00:30:16.601 --> 00:30:18.101 are you from the Chestnut Ridge? 00:30:18.863 --> 00:30:26.339 Gab: I think we're northeast and I think chestnut Ridge is like southwest. 00:30:27.159 --> 00:30:27.549 Paul Dulski: Okay 00:30:27.559 --> 00:30:31.037 Jody: I mean, personally I can't tell you, but I know of Chestnut Ridge. 00:30:31.037 --> 00:30:31.857 Yes, I do know about it. 00:30:31.857 --> 00:30:33.487 I've heard, about Chestnut Ridge 00:30:34.487 --> 00:30:35.107 Paul Dulski: Right, right. 00:30:35.197 --> 00:30:38.917 No, I was just curious 'cause it almost seems like if, if we have a pattern 00:30:38.917 --> 00:30:42.237 of three here in Vermont, it sounds like you guys have a pattern over 00:30:42.237 --> 00:30:45.667 there of three areas in Pennsylvania. 00:30:45.687 --> 00:30:47.917 What that kinda makes it interesting, I think 00:30:48.165 --> 00:30:50.738 Jody: What's interesting to me is you mentioned Gettysburg. 00:30:51.478 --> 00:30:54.858 I mean, you can't go to Gettysburg without, having an experience, I think. 00:30:54.868 --> 00:30:56.721 You know, I've said that time and time again. 00:30:57.238 --> 00:31:00.511 But what's interesting about Gettysburg is the geological 00:31:00.511 --> 00:31:02.898 activity, underneath Gettysburg. 00:31:03.378 --> 00:31:08.048 There's, Devil's den is a r- rock structure in gettysburg 00:31:08.048 --> 00:31:09.348 that's all volcanic rock. 00:31:10.348 --> 00:31:14.364 So at one point in the Earth's history, that was a pretty active volcanic area. 00:31:15.124 --> 00:31:18.754 So you gotta wonder if there's some faults that are open there, you 00:31:18.754 --> 00:31:23.903 know, geological activity that's actually, causing that activity or 00:31:24.443 --> 00:31:28.556 aiding people in having experiences you know, it's just just something 00:31:28.556 --> 00:31:29.484 I'm, interested in right now. 00:31:29.484 --> 00:31:31.265 I'm trying to put those connections together. 00:31:32.324 --> 00:31:38.614 Paul Dulski: Yeah, that's interesting that you say that because when I was getting 00:31:38.614 --> 00:31:45.384 into the spook light phenomenon and trying to list and hear, like, all the different, 00:31:45.424 --> 00:31:53.254 like, things that could possibly counter with this whole spook light phenomenon, 00:31:53.294 --> 00:32:00.294 like swamps, caves, mines, minerals of some sort, water even, or flowing water 00:32:00.294 --> 00:32:02.154 I should say, just to be more clear. 00:32:02.204 --> 00:32:02.414 Jody: Yep. 00:32:02.988 --> 00:32:07.148 Paul Dulski: If you look at South Bennington, we have like seven 00:32:07.148 --> 00:32:09.808 or eight caves of, like, mines. 00:32:10.358 --> 00:32:15.328 So it's almost like going back to what you're saying about that, 00:32:15.348 --> 00:32:17.768 right, that volcanic, uh, fault line. 00:32:18.422 --> 00:32:18.593 Jody: Mm-hmm. 00:32:18.828 --> 00:32:21.788 Paul Dulski: Like is all this though here around this area, is 00:32:21.818 --> 00:32:26.088 that's what's causing this quote phenomenon here in, uh, Bennington 00:32:26.588 --> 00:32:29.208 Jody: Yeah, I mean it all, it all seems to kind of relate. 00:32:29.721 --> 00:32:33.091 All the hotspots seem to have, yeah, geological activity 00:32:34.091 --> 00:32:34.561 Paul Dulski: Yes. 00:32:34.611 --> 00:32:34.971 Yeah. 00:32:35.681 --> 00:32:42.691 They also talk about the mysterious lights, almost like UFOs around Arlington. 00:32:42.701 --> 00:32:43.751 That's south of us. 00:32:44.521 --> 00:32:49.381 There also was at one point, oh man, I'm probably gonna get the date wrong now. 00:32:49.601 --> 00:32:56.361 So I'm just, for right now, I'm just gonna say September of 1962, I believe it was. 00:32:56.861 --> 00:33:01.591 There was a newspaper article about this guy all the way up north in, 00:33:02.661 --> 00:33:04.971 Richford, I think it was, or Saint Alban. 00:33:05.081 --> 00:33:07.801 I can't remember the town that this guy was from. 00:33:08.521 --> 00:33:15.291 But he, dubbed the term that he had witnessed a Vermont UFO invasion 00:33:15.858 --> 00:33:19.218 And, um, his account is interesting. 00:33:19.588 --> 00:33:22.128 I found the newspaper article and stuff like that. 00:33:22.138 --> 00:33:25.468 I actually posted it a couple years ago for like UFO Day. 00:33:25.528 --> 00:33:27.708 Maybe it was even last year for all I know. 00:33:27.748 --> 00:33:31.578 But I, did a little article on it just because I thought it was just very 00:33:31.588 --> 00:33:35.388 interesting just because it had the term, you know, Vermont UFO invasion. 00:33:35.916 --> 00:33:39.839 But it just fascinates me because if you look at northern 00:33:39.859 --> 00:33:42.949 Vermont, that's all rural area. 00:33:43.602 --> 00:33:45.912 you're right by the Canadian border. 00:33:46.692 --> 00:33:54.502 So I mean, I don't know, man, like there, there's a lot of possibility of if there 00:33:54.502 --> 00:33:58.742 is something trying to hide in that specific type of area, it can be done. 00:33:59.662 --> 00:34:05.112 Gab: So what about, I know that in, you know, not i- only in Vermont, 00:34:05.122 --> 00:34:09.562 but in New England as a whole, you guys have a lot of vampires. 00:34:09.592 --> 00:34:11.902 You have that, you had that vampire craze 00:34:12.415 --> 00:34:12.905 Paul Dulski: Yes. 00:34:12.915 --> 00:34:20.605 We have so that I can say without, hesitation is I can definitely 00:34:20.615 --> 00:34:28.145 say there is four cases in Vermont that were dubbed as vampirism 00:34:28.557 --> 00:34:28.747 Gab: Mm-hmm. 00:34:30.085 --> 00:34:33.255 Paul Dulski: Supposedly there was a fifth vampire story. 00:34:33.728 --> 00:34:40.612 However, the more I tried to find a, uh, the bread and butter to it, 00:34:40.622 --> 00:34:48.052 per se, I could not find any sort of physical evidence about this fifth, 00:34:48.582 --> 00:34:50.902 uh, vampire story here in Vermont. 00:34:51.742 --> 00:34:56.775 But two happened here in Vermont in the same year, which was, uh, 1830. 00:34:57.308 --> 00:34:59.818 So 1830 was in, Woodstock. 00:34:59.818 --> 00:35:02.398 They called it, like, Vampirism in Woodstock. 00:35:02.878 --> 00:35:13.495 And it was about this family that were trying to find a cure because You know, 00:35:13.495 --> 00:35:20.785 this one family member got sick and fell ill and died, and then this next one, you 00:35:20.785 --> 00:35:26.785 know, started to get sick and oh my God, they looked at the relative in the, uh, 00:35:26.865 --> 00:35:33.005 in the ground and there was blood in the mouth, and that must mean that they fed. 00:35:33.615 --> 00:35:40.855 So what they did was they went to the open green I guess, like where the 00:35:40.855 --> 00:35:46.335 public, uh, green is, like public park or whatever, and they literally like 00:35:46.645 --> 00:35:55.325 set fire in this little park area to basically dissolve the, the human heart. 00:35:55.875 --> 00:35:58.975 And they basically ate the heart, like almost like in the public 00:35:59.625 --> 00:36:01.275 eye, I guess you could almost say. 00:36:01.535 --> 00:36:04.515 There was a TV show called American Vampires, 00:36:04.955 --> 00:36:10.115 and they actually reached out to a buddy of mine, his name is Jesse 00:36:10.288 --> 00:36:16.438 Savage, who actually was in American Vampires, and he did the little segment 00:36:16.928 --> 00:36:22.968 where they had him take a pig's heart just to see how long it would take 00:36:22.968 --> 00:36:28.768 to actually, you know, basically burn a, quote, human heart in the public 00:36:28.948 --> 00:36:31.638 using what they had at that time. 00:36:32.638 --> 00:36:34.108 And it was interesting. 00:36:34.928 --> 00:36:40.258 And then there was, uh, unless I'm getting this one confused with a 00:36:40.258 --> 00:36:47.398 different year, but there was one in Manchester where, the wife died. 00:36:48.398 --> 00:36:53.108 And of course, the husband was like, "Oh no, my dead wife is coming 00:36:53.118 --> 00:36:58.658 back to get revenge on my now new wife." So they did the same thing. 00:36:58.658 --> 00:37:03.538 They, they, you know, dug her up, saw that there was blood in the mouth. 00:37:04.438 --> 00:37:11.178 And when they burned her heart at Jacob's Forge, I think it's 00:37:11.198 --> 00:37:12.928 what it was called in Manchester. 00:37:13.638 --> 00:37:17.103 You know, they did their little ritual thing there, and that was it. 00:37:18.103 --> 00:37:21.753 And then there was another one that went back to Woodstock. 00:37:22.413 --> 00:37:27.153 I can't remember the name off the top of my head, but, the only 00:37:27.183 --> 00:37:31.743 evidence that I could find on that was like some old like, uh, Vermont 00:37:31.803 --> 00:37:33.343 Folklife, I think it was called. 00:37:34.223 --> 00:37:40.093 They have people being able to read it and just write down like what is 00:37:40.093 --> 00:37:45.753 said, but I can't physically use the, um, the article that was made So I 00:37:45.753 --> 00:37:47.463 can't remember all of that detail. 00:37:47.493 --> 00:37:49.203 But yeah, there was that one as well. 00:37:49.253 --> 00:37:50.253 Oh, that's what it was. 00:37:50.613 --> 00:37:52.853 Now that I'm really thinking about it, how stupid am I? 00:37:53.063 --> 00:37:53.893 Dummerston. 00:37:54.393 --> 00:37:56.482 So this was the Spaulding family. 00:37:56.982 --> 00:38:01.498 Now this one is interesting, because Mr. Spaulding was one of 00:38:01.498 --> 00:38:06.698 those like high names because he was like, he served in the army. 00:38:07.128 --> 00:38:09.088 He like helped with the community. 00:38:09.088 --> 00:38:10.368 He did this, he did that. 00:38:10.368 --> 00:38:13.758 Like everybody knew who he was in Vermont back in the day. 00:38:14.618 --> 00:38:23.818 So when he died, he, um, he got placed in a cemetery that is literally 00:38:23.868 --> 00:38:26.558 across the street of a school. 00:38:27.108 --> 00:38:33.118 So what's interesting is that he was the only member of the family that is 00:38:33.188 --> 00:38:38.288 actually not buried with the rest of his family, which is sad at the same time. 00:38:39.138 --> 00:38:45.022 But what's weird about this is, for the Spaulding family, is they call 00:38:45.032 --> 00:38:51.322 this one, like, the cursed vine because it's one of those stories, like I think 00:38:51.322 --> 00:38:56.882 it's in Rhode Island, where this weird, mysterious vine grew grave to grave. 00:38:57.360 --> 00:38:57.990 Gab: Yes 00:38:58.162 --> 00:39:00.572 Paul Dulski: And that's sort of like what happened here in, Vermont. 00:39:01.572 --> 00:39:07.062 So like within a six-month timeframe, I almost wanna say 00:39:07.062 --> 00:39:09.482 like six other people died 00:39:10.482 --> 00:39:10.848 Gab: Yeah. 00:39:11.148 --> 00:39:12.415 I think it was six people. 00:39:13.065 --> 00:39:15.592 And they were blaming the vine. 00:39:15.732 --> 00:39:18.212 The vine was like the vampire curse. 00:39:18.352 --> 00:39:21.359 And like when it would hit the next grave, the next person would die. 00:39:22.001 --> 00:39:22.711 Jody: Is that really what they- 00:39:22.951 --> 00:39:23.201 Gab: Yeah. 00:39:23.201 --> 00:39:23.431 Paul Dulski: Correct. 00:39:23.431 --> 00:39:23.462 Jody: Wow. 00:39:24.071 --> 00:39:27.709 Gab: Oh Oh yeah, they were like, they had a lot of superstitions back then 00:39:28.311 --> 00:39:29.181 Jody: Well, they have to explain 00:39:29.181 --> 00:39:29.651 it away 00:39:29.811 --> 00:39:30.399 Gab: yeah. 00:39:30.451 --> 00:39:30.851 Jody: One way or another right? 00:39:31.341 --> 00:39:35.431 Paul Dulski: Well what makes this one fascinating to me is, you know, the 00:39:35.451 --> 00:39:39.241 people that would write about the town history, I would call it a historian. 00:39:39.241 --> 00:39:43.631 But anyway, this particular guy, he wrote that down in the book. 00:39:43.801 --> 00:39:44.921 He didn't leave it out. 00:39:45.031 --> 00:39:49.281 So he literally wrote like how this mysterious vine grew 00:39:49.811 --> 00:39:51.451 from one grave to the other. 00:39:52.063 --> 00:39:52.473 Gab: Yeah 00:39:52.511 --> 00:39:53.681 Paul Dulski: That's all in this book 00:39:54.214 --> 00:39:56.064 Gab: I mean, I don't know, cut the vine? 00:39:57.660 --> 00:39:58.150 Paul Dulski: Right 00:39:58.674 --> 00:39:59.463 Jody: Well, you weren't there. 00:39:59.862 --> 00:40:02.084 What if it was a supernatural vine and it couldn't be killed? 00:40:02.584 --> 00:40:05.754 Gab: I mean, cut it all the way back and see what happens. 00:40:06.754 --> 00:40:10.544 Paul Dulski: Well, I mean, I mean they did dig it up and got 00:40:10.544 --> 00:40:11.764 rid of the vines supposedly. 00:40:12.716 --> 00:40:13.216 Gab: Yeah 00:40:13.704 --> 00:40:17.734 Paul Dulski: see that it was attaching itself like from one grave to the other 00:40:18.734 --> 00:40:21.878 Jody: Now an interesting detail for me is all of these vampire cases, 00:40:21.878 --> 00:40:24.248 they all have to deal with blood coming out of the mouth and all that. 00:40:24.248 --> 00:40:26.113 Now is that something that was natural 00:40:26.173 --> 00:40:28.173 at the time when they, when they buried bodies? 00:40:28.173 --> 00:40:30.193 Is that a normal process where the blood 00:40:30.193 --> 00:40:30.823 would come back up? 00:40:30.823 --> 00:40:33.293 Or is that like a result of something like tuberculosis or 00:40:34.293 --> 00:40:37.473 Paul Dulski: Um, I would almost say it would be both, right? 00:40:37.664 --> 00:40:38.214 Gab: Yeah 00:40:38.655 --> 00:40:44.143 Paul Dulski: because at the time of that, of the 1830s, we haven't really went into 00:40:44.193 --> 00:40:46.893 embalming all the, uh, the bodies yet. 00:40:47.013 --> 00:40:48.543 So we kind of just buried them. 00:40:49.043 --> 00:40:49.170 Gab: Yeah. 00:40:49.170 --> 00:40:52.513 And we still use probably like the burial shrouds for people 00:40:52.813 --> 00:40:53.683 Paul Dulski: Yeah, exactly 00:40:53.935 --> 00:40:55.145 Jody: Yeah, so They would swell. 00:40:55.405 --> 00:40:57.035 they would swell and they would stretch and- 00:40:57.065 --> 00:40:57.425 Gab: Yeah. 00:40:57.555 --> 00:40:57.975 Jody: Fluids would- 00:40:57.975 --> 00:40:58.605 Gab: Then their skin would- 00:40:58.738 --> 00:40:58.985 Jody: yeah 00:40:59.046 --> 00:40:59.163 Gab: skin would split. 00:40:59.163 --> 00:41:01.365 Yeah as they would dehydrate, their skin would shrink back 00:41:01.415 --> 00:41:01.445 Jody: Ohhhhhhh. 00:41:01.665 --> 00:41:03.288 And they'd look like they'd have fangs because 00:41:03.338 --> 00:41:03.593 Gab: Yeah 00:41:03.593 --> 00:41:04.815 Jody: the lips would shrink back. 00:41:04.815 --> 00:41:07.475 And then, uh, you know, the nails would still grow and the 00:41:07.485 --> 00:41:08.595 hair, so they thought they were 00:41:08.595 --> 00:41:08.925 still- 00:41:09.072 --> 00:41:09.322 Gab: Yeah. 00:41:09.382 --> 00:41:09.462 Jody: Still alive. 00:41:09.462 --> 00:41:14.143 Gab: So yeah, it was basically like people were dying from diseases, but they're 00:41:14.143 --> 00:41:19.303 finding the scapegoat of the vampire because they don't have germ theory yet. 00:41:19.693 --> 00:41:20.923 So they have to find a reason 00:41:20.923 --> 00:41:21.393 Paul Dulski: Yeah not yet. 00:41:21.523 --> 00:41:25.027 Gab: 'Cause it's obviously not germs ' cause they don't know they exist. 00:41:25.404 --> 00:41:32.923 So then you're looking at, like, they'd go in, I don't even know why they would 00:41:32.933 --> 00:41:33.503 do this. 00:41:33.993 --> 00:41:38.737 So they would dig the people up, and they would remove their organs, right? 00:41:38.757 --> 00:41:42.537 They typically removed hearts, livers, lungs, were like the 00:41:42.537 --> 00:41:43.687 three that they would target. 00:41:44.197 --> 00:41:46.690 And if they found fluid or liquid 00:41:47.451 --> 00:41:47.721 Paul Dulski: Any problems. 00:41:48.467 --> 00:41:51.257 Gab: In the organs, they would be like, "That's enough. 00:41:51.257 --> 00:41:53.397 They're obviously a vampire", right? 00:41:53.697 --> 00:41:58.727 So now they get into, they'll take these organs, they'll burn them, they'll 00:41:58.727 --> 00:42:03.077 grind them up, and then if you're lucky, they're mixing them with water or 00:42:03.077 --> 00:42:06.507 into some kind of tonic, and then you're drinking them. 00:42:06.507 --> 00:42:09.301 The person who's sick is drinking them, which is gross 00:42:09.339 --> 00:42:10.797 Jody: and Again, no germ theory at the time so- 00:42:12.225 --> 00:42:15.667 Gab: But now if you're lucky, if you were one of the lucky people, 00:42:16.037 --> 00:42:20.447 you just had to inhale the smoke as part of like purification while 00:42:20.447 --> 00:42:21.797 they're burning the organs. 00:42:22.113 --> 00:42:22.413 Paul Dulski: Yup 00:42:22.857 --> 00:42:24.587 Gab: So you got like one or the other. 00:42:24.587 --> 00:42:27.787 You're either drinking it or you're inhaling it. 00:42:28.127 --> 00:42:33.104 And I mean, if you're drinking like somebody's like rotten organs 00:42:33.754 --> 00:42:37.294 after they've been burned, I mean, I feel like that's enough that you're 00:42:37.394 --> 00:42:40.314 probably going to get sick and die. 00:42:40.696 --> 00:42:42.146 Jody: One way or another you're getting some kind of 00:42:42.166 --> 00:42:43.856 bacteria, some kind of- disease. 00:42:43.886 --> 00:42:44.266 Ugh. 00:42:45.740 --> 00:42:46.406 Gross. 00:42:46.634 --> 00:42:48.524 Gab: And a lot of the times, it's not like it worked. 00:42:48.584 --> 00:42:50.004 Like, it's not like they were saving 00:42:50.004 --> 00:42:53.604 these people that they thought, you know, were the victims. 00:42:53.614 --> 00:42:53.934 They were 00:42:53.934 --> 00:42:54.794 dying too. 00:42:55.294 --> 00:42:55.664 Paul Dulski: Right. 00:42:55.694 --> 00:43:01.654 But if they, if they were able to live a little bit longer than, let's say, the 00:43:01.654 --> 00:43:06.654 average person that had this happen or whatever, would that be considered lucky? 00:43:06.984 --> 00:43:07.114 Gab: Yeah. 00:43:07.114 --> 00:43:09.994 Then they would be like, "Oh, this is because, you know, we 00:43:09.994 --> 00:43:14.164 staked that person or we, you know, this is because you drank their organs." 00:43:14.224 --> 00:43:15.734 Jody: Just move on to the next superstition. 00:43:15.794 --> 00:43:15.994 Yeah. 00:43:16.544 --> 00:43:16.554 Gab: Bluh. 00:43:17.782 --> 00:43:18.674 I would never. 00:43:18.734 --> 00:43:19.504 I don't even care 00:43:19.657 --> 00:43:20.078 Jody: Oh my God. 00:43:21.550 --> 00:43:21.794 Paul Dulski: Yeah. 00:43:21.794 --> 00:43:25.744 It, it, it's, uh, it was totally a weird timeframe for sure. 00:43:26.744 --> 00:43:32.994 I actually have the, the old historian's, book that he made that 00:43:33.004 --> 00:43:37.827 had, you know, his thoughts about the Spalding mysterious vine on my 00:43:37.827 --> 00:43:40.187 website that people can get for free. 00:43:40.707 --> 00:43:46.067 And so people can actually just go to it and find that page and actually read 00:43:46.067 --> 00:43:51.387 what he wrote in this book about the vine and the Spalding family in general 00:43:52.199 --> 00:43:52.579 Gab: Yeah. 00:43:52.671 --> 00:43:53.181 Jody: E-mail me that link, Paul. 00:43:53.181 --> 00:43:54.281 I'll put it in the show notes 00:43:54.951 --> 00:43:55.581 Paul Dulski: Yeah, totally 00:43:56.590 --> 00:44:00.981 Gab: And I imagine too, like what it must have been like in like the 00:44:01.531 --> 00:44:05.761 1880's when like we finally determine like that tuberculosis is a thing. 00:44:05.801 --> 00:44:08.391 And it's a bacteria that's causing people to get sick. 00:44:08.611 --> 00:44:11.291 And they're like, "What? It's not vampires?" 00:44:11.291 --> 00:44:12.131 Jody: It's not the vines? 00:44:12.281 --> 00:44:13.341 It's not the- what? 00:44:14.143 --> 00:44:18.863 Paul Dulski: Well, the vibe seems to be like a random, like a more rare occasion. 00:44:18.863 --> 00:44:22.433 'Cause the only other weird vine that I know of was Rhode Island. 00:44:22.483 --> 00:44:23.593 Jody: Yeah, I've never I've never heard of it. 00:44:23.593 --> 00:44:26.577 I think it's fascinating because it's a nice little bit of american folklore. 00:44:26.753 --> 00:44:27.145 Gab: Yeah 00:44:27.227 --> 00:44:27.987 Jody: it's unique. 00:44:27.987 --> 00:44:28.467 You know what I mean? 00:44:28.477 --> 00:44:29.437 Like i've never heard of that. 00:44:29.487 --> 00:44:30.147 That's amazing. 00:44:30.511 --> 00:44:30.981 Paul Dulski: Yeah. 00:44:31.236 --> 00:44:33.426 I had this really nice guy on. 00:44:33.426 --> 00:44:38.326 I talked to him now four times, and his name is, uh, Thomas D'Agostino. 00:44:38.336 --> 00:44:39.786 You guys may know his work. 00:44:39.826 --> 00:44:44.596 But he made a book called The History of Vampires of New England. 00:44:45.146 --> 00:44:51.596 And he, when I had him on to talk about the vampires in Vermont, he he actually 00:44:51.606 --> 00:44:56.196 started it off with the Rhode Island stories because of the fact that that 00:44:56.206 --> 00:45:01.816 was one of the weird vine stories, and people from Rhode Island were 00:45:01.856 --> 00:45:03.786 coming up to, like, Vermont and stuff. 00:45:04.786 --> 00:45:08.403 it's almost like, and I think we talked about this before 00:45:08.843 --> 00:45:14.743 but, how, you know, if people were coming overseas to the, to the 00:45:14.743 --> 00:45:18.403 New Land, whatever they believe in or whatever comes with them, 00:45:18.475 --> 00:45:18.905 Gab: Yeah 00:45:18.963 --> 00:45:21.393 Paul Dulski: So it's almost like whatever the hell was going on in 00:45:21.393 --> 00:45:25.613 Rhode Island come here to Vermont, especially with the mysterious vine? 00:45:26.453 --> 00:45:26.873 So 00:45:27.241 --> 00:45:28.341 Jody: Yeah, that's, that's interesting. 00:45:28.341 --> 00:45:31.781 I wonder which, uh, european country that's coming in from. 00:45:31.851 --> 00:45:32.311 Gab: Yeah. 00:45:32.821 --> 00:45:33.611 Jody: That's really cool. 00:45:33.774 --> 00:45:34.548 Yeah, it follows. 00:45:34.991 --> 00:45:37.521 it follows their culture from, from where they're from to, uh, 00:45:37.531 --> 00:45:39.437 the americas, so very interesting 00:45:39.930 --> 00:45:40.270 Paul Dulski: Yeah. 00:45:40.270 --> 00:45:43.690 What, does anybody know that, or if we'd want to know because I'm still 00:45:43.690 --> 00:45:47.000 trying to figure out if they're more to this mysterious vine. 00:45:47.605 --> 00:45:48.074 Gab: Yeah. 00:45:48.647 --> 00:45:52.678 And then we have, I'm not sure if you guys have them up in Vermont or New England. 00:45:53.288 --> 00:45:54.378 You might have a few. 00:45:54.678 --> 00:45:56.421 We have like hooded graves. 00:45:56.944 --> 00:45:58.514 Where they basically have like 00:45:58.524 --> 00:46:00.404 metal cages covering them. 00:46:00.811 --> 00:46:01.071 Paul Dulski: Nope 00:46:01.435 --> 00:46:05.425 Gab: And a lot of people will say like, "Oh, it was to keep things in." 00:46:05.435 --> 00:46:06.975 Like, "Oh, they must've been a vampire. 00:46:06.975 --> 00:46:08.075 They were this, they were that." 00:46:08.465 --> 00:46:10.555 But it was to stop grave robbers 00:46:11.555 --> 00:46:11.835 Paul Dulski: Yup 00:46:12.163 --> 00:46:14.723 Gab: Which it sounds like you guys might have been able to use to 00:46:14.723 --> 00:46:17.423 keep people from digging up these people they thought were vampires. 00:46:17.423 --> 00:46:17.733 I've always heard 00:46:18.905 --> 00:46:20.235 Jody: See, I've always heard the same thing. 00:46:20.235 --> 00:46:22.525 It was for, it was, it was to keep them in their graves. 00:46:22.525 --> 00:46:22.815 Yeah. 00:46:22.905 --> 00:46:23.025 Right. 00:46:23.155 --> 00:46:24.515 I never knew it was for grave robbers. 00:46:24.555 --> 00:46:25.495 I learned something today. 00:46:25.495 --> 00:46:25.994 How about that? 00:46:26.615 --> 00:46:28.755 Gab: We went to see that hooded grave in 00:46:29.344 --> 00:46:29.395 Catawissa. 00:46:29.465 --> 00:46:30.035 Jody: We did. 00:46:30.970 --> 00:46:33.339 Paul Dulski: There's actually a, a term for that. 00:46:33.429 --> 00:46:38.009 I actually just looked it up like a week or so ago because I was just talking 00:46:38.009 --> 00:46:45.139 about this to a lady I had on, uh, my show because she bounced around from, uh, 00:46:45.149 --> 00:46:49.369 Vermont, Florida, and she was in England 00:46:49.939 --> 00:46:50.589 Gab: That's cool 00:46:50.859 --> 00:46:51.379 Paul Dulski: To study school. 00:46:52.329 --> 00:46:57.379 And so we got onto the subject about like the haunted England 00:46:57.399 --> 00:47:03.349 and one of the questions I had asked her was, "Well, isn't England known 00:47:03.589 --> 00:47:09.769 for the like, the structures that go over the graves, like, you know, 00:47:09.779 --> 00:47:11.919 keep them, keep them in the grave?" 00:47:12.282 --> 00:47:12.711 Gab: Yeah 00:47:12.739 --> 00:47:15.009 Paul Dulski: she's like, "Yeah." She's like, "Yeah, and England 00:47:15.179 --> 00:47:19.459 is and so is Scotland," which I didn't know about Scotland 00:47:19.823 --> 00:47:21.203 Gab: We call them mortsafes 00:47:22.303 --> 00:47:23.213 Paul Dulski: That's what it was. 00:47:24.213 --> 00:47:26.593 That's what I was just trying to look up too, 'cause I was 00:47:26.633 --> 00:47:28.113 just like, I know I saw the name 00:47:28.329 --> 00:47:28.719 Gab: Yeah. 00:47:29.732 --> 00:47:31.319 Or a hooded grave. 00:47:31.359 --> 00:47:35.389 That's like most people say it, just a hooded grave, but they're called mortsafe 00:47:35.939 --> 00:47:37.409 Paul Dulski: Yeah, it's like a French term, 00:47:37.715 --> 00:47:38.165 Gab: Yeah 00:47:38.369 --> 00:47:41.719 Paul Dulski: If I remember right, which is interesting because I'm part French, 00:47:41.749 --> 00:47:44.549 but yet, I can't really learn French. 00:47:44.549 --> 00:47:47.097 The only thing French that I know is bonjour. 00:47:49.093 --> 00:47:49.593 but yeah, 00:47:49.767 --> 00:47:50.937 Jody: You could always learn, paul. 00:47:51.251 --> 00:47:54.991 Paul Dulski: uh, not with my speech impediment sometimes. 00:47:55.091 --> 00:48:00.241 Uh, it's hard for me sometimes to say specific words, so yeah. 00:48:00.931 --> 00:48:05.211 That's why, like, uh, if I, if I start saying something like, "Uh, uh, uh," 00:48:05.481 --> 00:48:09.671 like it's just really me and my brain kind of fighting back and forth of 00:48:10.171 --> 00:48:15.151 like what word can I use just to help synthesize it for what I'm trying to say. 00:48:16.151 --> 00:48:19.551 Jody: Well, I st- I, I stutter a lot, Paul, so, uh, you know, I get it. 00:48:19.731 --> 00:48:20.031 Paul Dulski: Oh me too. 00:48:20.801 --> 00:48:21.181 Yeah. 00:48:21.934 --> 00:48:23.394 it's just, you know, it's just fun. 00:48:23.394 --> 00:48:30.594 I mean, it's always fascinated me these haunted stories because it's, it, I think 00:48:30.594 --> 00:48:36.324 it's like what Gab was trying to say with all the differences or similarities, 00:48:36.757 --> 00:48:39.284 Because it, never goes away. 00:48:39.334 --> 00:48:42.334 Like I was saying, it, you, all you gotta do is just change the 00:48:42.334 --> 00:48:46.044 location, change the names, and it's pretty much practically the same. 00:48:46.172 --> 00:48:46.602 Gab: Yeah 00:48:46.634 --> 00:48:49.984 Paul Dulski: that's just, uh, the modern era now where you and 00:48:49.984 --> 00:48:51.854 I could start a folklore, right? 00:48:51.884 --> 00:48:56.754 But we might add some different detail to it later on. 00:48:57.174 --> 00:48:59.224 And God know what happens to it. 00:48:59.234 --> 00:49:03.684 Once you throw it out there, people will take it and do what they will with 00:49:03.684 --> 00:49:05.204 it, and add whatever they want with it 00:49:05.419 --> 00:49:05.869 Gab: Right. 00:49:05.919 --> 00:49:07.969 Jody: I think the way gab was going with that question was, 00:49:07.979 --> 00:49:09.359 and correct me if I'm wrong, Gab. 00:49:10.359 --> 00:49:13.102 You have these archetypes everywhere that are all the same, right? 00:49:13.709 --> 00:49:17.039 You see the lady in the white, you see, you know, whatever it is. 00:49:18.019 --> 00:49:19.499 The only thing that's different is the history. 00:49:20.027 --> 00:49:20.079 Gab: Yeah. 00:49:20.079 --> 00:49:23.529 Jody: Because it's the localized history that makes these stories special, right? 00:49:23.610 --> 00:49:23.999 Gab: Yeah. 00:49:24.116 --> 00:49:28.476 Jody: Different names, different situations, different, local ethnic, 00:49:28.739 --> 00:49:31.036 little spins that make these things unique, these stories unique. 00:49:31.066 --> 00:49:34.136 But when you really dig into it, and you're right, paul, it's all the same 00:49:34.386 --> 00:49:34.726 Gab: yeah. 00:49:35.209 --> 00:49:39.039 Paul Dulski: Well, so this will, so speaking of lady in white, 00:49:39.039 --> 00:49:41.589 I thought this would actually fit the conversation right here. 00:49:42.069 --> 00:49:46.269 So back in the day, be- when I was first started in this Haunted Vermont 00:49:46.269 --> 00:49:51.149 thing, I was like, "Oh, what's gonna be like my first, you know, like what, w- 00:49:51.149 --> 00:49:55.503 what tale do I wanna first share?" I actually went with what I believe is 00:49:55.503 --> 00:50:00.743 still an underrated, legend here in West Rutland, Vermont, at least, which 00:50:00.743 --> 00:50:02.393 is like a 10-minute drive from me. 00:50:02.683 --> 00:50:05.743 But they talk about a lady in white on the road. 00:50:06.653 --> 00:50:13.293 But if you learn about the area of where this is, located, you 00:50:13.293 --> 00:50:19.043 have quite a bit of weird legends surrounding the area already. 00:50:19.513 --> 00:50:24.473 So like, the lady in white is known to roam around Whipple Hollow 00:50:24.493 --> 00:50:26.883 Road here, or uh, Marble Street. 00:50:27.773 --> 00:50:32.743 And they say sometime that you can see her with or without 00:50:32.743 --> 00:50:34.673 a baby, whatever that means. 00:50:35.179 --> 00:50:37.959 So I don't know if she was killed and was pregnant, but then in the 00:50:38.069 --> 00:50:40.869 afterlife, you know, she was able to have her child or something. 00:50:41.469 --> 00:50:42.589 I mean, I don't know. 00:50:43.259 --> 00:50:48.799 But, it gets weirder because some people have claimed at the time 00:50:49.259 --> 00:50:53.509 that there's no proof that a lady had died in or around that area. 00:50:53.703 --> 00:50:54.193 Gab: Mm-hmm. 00:50:54.409 --> 00:51:01.449 Paul Dulski: Now, this area was also known for the marble industry back in the day, 00:51:01.569 --> 00:51:02.529 Jody: That's interesting 00:51:02.619 --> 00:51:08.729 Paul Dulski: And there's a legend where once the marble had, um, dried up or 00:51:08.729 --> 00:51:13.869 whatever, that the town of Whipple Hollow packed up all their stuff and left. 00:51:14.419 --> 00:51:22.919 And then there was articles later on, that were found, thanks to another 00:51:22.979 --> 00:51:27.759 podcast, that I'm still kinda cringe about when I listen to that episode. 00:51:27.769 --> 00:51:32.859 Because in the episode, the guy was just like, "I'm surprised nobody tried 00:51:32.859 --> 00:51:37.779 to dig into this." And it's just like, mother… like I, you know how, you 00:51:37.779 --> 00:51:43.489 know, dude, like I've reached out to that historical society of West Rutland, 00:51:43.969 --> 00:51:50.398 and the person that replied back to email was like one of those volunteers 00:51:50.428 --> 00:51:55.128 that I don't even think she even wanted to take the email to begin with. 00:51:56.128 --> 00:52:05.858 And so she never really said that… Well, she told me that there's no newspaper 00:52:05.858 --> 00:52:07.828 article, there's no this and no that. 00:52:07.838 --> 00:52:11.008 So it's just like, okay, so I guess we can just all say this is 00:52:11.008 --> 00:52:13.248 absolutely folklore and legend. 00:52:13.548 --> 00:52:14.908 Like, there's no proof at all. 00:52:15.030 --> 00:52:16.690 Jody: In her defense, she was probably onto you. 00:52:16.690 --> 00:52:17.830 She probably thought that you were, 00:52:17.840 --> 00:52:20.870 you were, uh, you were a spooky guy looking for spooky things, because they 00:52:20.870 --> 00:52:22.320 probably get calls like that all the time. 00:52:22.390 --> 00:52:22.640 Gab: Yeah. 00:52:22.640 --> 00:52:23.500 Jody: Because we, we have that. 00:52:23.510 --> 00:52:27.150 There's places local to us that we'd love to investigate, and they're very 00:52:27.150 --> 00:52:30.258 standoffish when you send them an email and you, you tell them what you do. 00:52:30.523 --> 00:52:34.113 It's almost better to kinda like lead into that conversation gradually rather 00:52:34.113 --> 00:52:35.483 than tell them all, all upfront, you know? 00:52:36.731 --> 00:52:39.761 Paul Dulski: Well, the kicker, the reason why they probably didn't 00:52:39.761 --> 00:52:45.819 want to take my email is because she knew who my aunt was So yeah. 00:52:46.679 --> 00:52:48.829 So I think she knew the… 00:52:48.840 --> 00:52:50.350 Jody: Now you know you're the haunted Vermont guy. 00:52:50.765 --> 00:52:51.335 Paul Dulski: Yeah. 00:52:51.619 --> 00:52:54.109 So yeah, I don't think that helped. 00:52:54.109 --> 00:52:58.639 But anyway, yeah, so I could not, at the time of this, back in 2012, 00:52:58.639 --> 00:53:03.862 find any evidence about any of this until I went on YouTube one time. 00:53:04.672 --> 00:53:09.382 And it was by a YouTube channel called Take 2 Vermont. 00:53:09.832 --> 00:53:14.272 They only did like four videos of like Ghost Tales of Vermont or Ghosts 00:53:14.272 --> 00:53:15.562 of Vermont or something like that. 00:53:16.002 --> 00:53:22.192 But one of the tales they did was the Lady in White off of Whipple Hollow. 00:53:22.692 --> 00:53:29.472 And it actually had a eyewitness guy by the name Frank, who shared his story 00:53:29.532 --> 00:53:31.452 of encountering the Lady in White. 00:53:31.761 --> 00:53:32.281 Gab: Nice 00:53:32.422 --> 00:53:37.922 Paul Dulski: And so that, to me, was the only physical proof I could actually find. 00:53:38.504 --> 00:53:38.724 Gab: Yeah. 00:53:38.724 --> 00:53:42.406 Paul Dulski: Now you know, thanks to this podcast, I did happen to find 00:53:42.406 --> 00:53:45.566 the articles that they had found. 00:53:46.496 --> 00:53:51.666 And one of them was how they talked about during the marble time, this, 00:53:51.866 --> 00:53:56.789 building kind of mysteriously burnt down, and one person was killed. 00:53:57.469 --> 00:54:02.109 And then another one w- were talking about the ghost, um, I forget 00:54:02.109 --> 00:54:04.749 the headline title right now, but it had the word ghost in it. 00:54:05.539 --> 00:54:12.519 And, um, they talked about how this man could be seen, you know, kind of 00:54:12.519 --> 00:54:14.359 like hitchhiking or walking the road. 00:54:14.849 --> 00:54:18.806 And it's just like, "Huh, that's weird. How come I couldn't hear about this 00:54:18.846 --> 00:54:24.156 before then when I was, you know, asking the West Rutland Historical Society?" 00:54:24.958 --> 00:54:25.338 Jody: Yeah. 00:54:25.691 --> 00:54:26.416 Gab: Yeah. 00:54:26.546 --> 00:54:30.456 Paul Dulski: so anyway, that's why it would, uh, why it kind of grind my 00:54:30.636 --> 00:54:32.456 gears a little bit with that episode. 00:54:39.811 --> 00:54:42.766 Jody: Don't forget to check us out at podcast of the paranormal.com. 00:54:43.381 --> 00:54:46.621 You could find links to our social media, links to our episodes. 00:54:46.891 --> 00:54:49.861 You could stream right from the website, or you could listen at 00:54:49.861 --> 00:54:51.465 your favorite podcast provider. 00:54:51.765 --> 00:54:55.628 If you want to come on the show, use our contact form or you can email us at 00:54:55.628 --> 00:54:58.628 contact at podcast of the paranormal.com. 00:55:07.286 --> 00:55:11.622 Paul Dulski: When my dad was alive, I, this is why I kinda wish 00:55:11.622 --> 00:55:15.972 he, he was still around by the time I was, uh, doing all this. 00:55:15.972 --> 00:55:20.192 Because when I was little, he used to talk to me about not only his 00:55:20.202 --> 00:55:25.972 Vietnam War stories and stuff like that, but he, he definitely had 00:55:25.972 --> 00:55:28.112 an interest in this phenomenon. 00:55:28.852 --> 00:55:39.217 Because he told me about this UFO story, something about a UFO taking a cow away. 00:55:39.627 --> 00:55:46.135 Now, I could ne- I, I can never remember if he said he heard this story 00:55:46.415 --> 00:55:48.755 or if he physically saw it himself. 00:55:48.785 --> 00:55:51.575 I, I almost wanna always say he just heard it. 00:55:51.711 --> 00:55:52.011 Jody: Mm-hmm. 00:55:52.045 --> 00:55:57.185 Paul Dulski: But what's fascinating to me about this is later on in the 00:55:57.265 --> 00:56:02.055 years to come, you know, getting into this Haunted Vermont thing, there's a 00:56:02.175 --> 00:56:07.785 story down south in, around Bennington again where this old farmer had cows. 00:56:08.315 --> 00:56:14.415 But, like, he woke up one morning, I think it was, and all his cows were electrocuted 00:56:14.778 --> 00:56:15.418 Gab: Oh, wow. 00:56:15.988 --> 00:56:16.598 Jody: Oh my God. 00:56:16.648 --> 00:56:17.558 This is in Vermont? 00:56:17.828 --> 00:56:18.228 Paul Dulski: Yeah. 00:56:18.531 --> 00:56:19.011 Jody: Wow 00:56:19.215 --> 00:56:19.855 Paul Dulski: yeah. 00:56:20.218 --> 00:56:21.588 Jody: Yeah, I'm gonna Have to go looking for that one 00:56:21.911 --> 00:56:26.068 Paul Dulski: Yeah, people it as like "leave the cows alone" I think is 00:56:26.068 --> 00:56:27.758 how they kinda word it around here. 00:56:28.128 --> 00:56:29.298 But yeah, it's down south. 00:56:29.732 --> 00:56:30.222 Jody: Oh, wow 00:56:30.908 --> 00:56:35.688 Paul Dulski: but yeah, it kinda got so known that the, um, what do they call him? 00:56:35.778 --> 00:56:40.388 Like the town official guy of like the town's, um, what is that, the mayor maybe? 00:56:40.388 --> 00:56:42.358 I don't fucking remember how to talk. 00:56:42.468 --> 00:56:48.888 But anyway, um, he wrote it down in his journal about like what he 00:56:48.908 --> 00:56:51.618 had, witnessed or heard or both. 00:56:51.838 --> 00:56:55.818 But yeah, he, he even said that how like this farmer's cows like were 00:56:55.838 --> 00:56:57.438 basically electrocuted to death 00:56:57.801 --> 00:56:58.211 Gab: Wow 00:56:58.211 --> 00:57:01.021 Jody: So we have a mass cow mutilation in Vermont. 00:57:01.821 --> 00:57:02.181 Wow. 00:57:02.251 --> 00:57:03.251 Maybe I do know about this. 00:57:03.281 --> 00:57:04.261 I'd have to go looking for it. 00:57:05.100 --> 00:57:06.031 Send me what you got, Paul. 00:57:07.031 --> 00:57:11.091 Paul Dulski: It's definitely around like Bennington, maybe North Pownal or Pownal. 00:57:11.201 --> 00:57:15.211 But speaking of, uh, North Pownal, if I'm pronouncing that town 00:57:15.341 --> 00:57:19.201 correctly, this one will be for you guys if you don't know about this. 00:57:19.631 --> 00:57:23.921 Uh, Vermont is known for one and only witch trial 00:57:24.288 --> 00:57:25.568 Gab: What do you mean by that 00:57:25.768 --> 00:57:31.595 Paul Dulski: So we were actually, I called it we were smarter than the 00:57:31.595 --> 00:57:35.535 Salem witch trial, because this came after the Salem witch trial. 00:57:36.135 --> 00:57:42.205 And what I mean by that is, so this lady by the name Margaret Krieger 00:57:42.335 --> 00:57:45.225 or Kreger, uh, I wanna say Krieger. 00:57:46.065 --> 00:57:48.855 Which, doesn't that sound awfully familiar to, I don't know, 00:57:48.865 --> 00:57:50.125 Freddy Krueger or something? 00:57:50.145 --> 00:57:56.285 But anyway, she was accused because her husband had died, so the town thought 00:57:56.355 --> 00:57:59.826 that she had bewitched her husband. 00:58:00.462 --> 00:58:04.706 So she was sentenced to the dunking chair here. 00:58:04.776 --> 00:58:08.636 And we're talking, like, in the middle of wintertime. 00:58:09.172 --> 00:58:14.856 And so she got dunked in this cold river in North Pownal 00:58:15.686 --> 00:58:17.506 around, like, Dean Street Road. 00:58:17.999 --> 00:58:27.106 And when they noticed that she was not coming back up, that's when they dove 00:58:27.116 --> 00:58:33.022 into this frozen r- uh, like, river, pond, whatever, and basically saved her life. 00:58:33.579 --> 00:58:34.389 And that was it. 00:58:34.399 --> 00:58:39.279 That was the one and only time that we tried to do a witch trial here in Vermont 00:58:39.941 --> 00:58:41.381 Jody: Oh, so they, they had stopped it. 00:58:41.391 --> 00:58:42.626 The citizens had stopped it 00:58:43.129 --> 00:58:45.912 Paul Dulski: Yeah, they actually stopped it and she actually survived 00:58:45.912 --> 00:58:50.892 it and was able to live for a little bit more, I guess I would say. 00:58:51.512 --> 00:58:59.322 Now the interesting part to this is when I heard about this, there was one photograph 00:58:59.692 --> 00:59:05.832 that had been taken at the time of where her and her family were buried. 00:59:06.149 --> 00:59:11.669 And I told myself that this is gonna be my mission, is to find 00:59:11.679 --> 00:59:13.639 her family and her family plot. 00:59:14.639 --> 00:59:19.709 Now, the kicker is she is not buried in Vermont. 00:59:20.399 --> 00:59:24.749 She's actually buried in Williamstown, Massachusetts. 00:59:25.499 --> 00:59:34.129 And ironically, from where she had had that horrible trial done to her, she is 00:59:34.139 --> 00:59:37.199 buried 13 minutes away from that spot 00:59:37.505 --> 00:59:38.145 Gab: Oh, wow 00:59:38.592 --> 00:59:38.932 Paul Dulski: Yeah. 00:59:39.435 --> 00:59:46.005 So I found the Legend and Lore, historical marker that they do now. 00:59:46.099 --> 00:59:46.109 Jody: Mm-hmm. 00:59:46.985 --> 00:59:49.375 Paul Dulski: And, uh, Vermont actually had two of 'em. 00:59:49.525 --> 00:59:53.105 Vermont had the one for the only witch trial, and Vermont had 00:59:53.115 --> 00:59:55.082 one for the Manchester vampire. 00:59:55.308 --> 00:59:55.768 Gab: Yeah 00:59:55.862 --> 00:59:56.832 Paul Dulski: That's the only two we got. 00:59:57.702 --> 01:00:02.102 Anyway, so I found that, that marker for her for the witch 01:00:02.102 --> 01:00:11.655 trial, which, um, fun fact, every September we do a witches walk around 01:00:11.725 --> 01:00:14.185 that area in honor of, Margaret. 01:00:14.491 --> 01:00:14.981 Gab: Oh, That's so 01:00:14.981 --> 01:00:15.641 sweet 01:00:16.155 --> 01:00:16.705 Paul Dulski: yeah. 01:00:17.335 --> 01:00:23.988 And, um, so anyway, I did some digging with that one and only photo. 01:00:24.515 --> 01:00:30.148 I found an article, I think is what it was, along with that picture, 01:00:31.008 --> 01:00:36.238 that that's how I realized that she was not in Vermont being buried. 01:00:36.580 --> 01:00:37.100 Gab: Yeah 01:00:37.358 --> 01:00:42.558 Paul Dulski: I took a friend with me, and we went searching for her, uh, when we 01:00:42.558 --> 01:00:48.678 went to Williamstown, because I had found out what cemetery she's in and everything. 01:00:48.828 --> 01:00:53.698 The only downside at that time was my only reference to where she could 01:00:53.698 --> 01:00:57.058 possibly be was just one and only photo. 01:00:57.628 --> 01:01:01.598 And let me tell you, it wasn't a great photo to go by, I 01:01:01.648 --> 01:01:03.268 can tell you that right now. 01:01:03.898 --> 01:01:06.698 Um, but I found her. 01:01:06.938 --> 01:01:08.298 Like, we found her. 01:01:08.318 --> 01:01:12.348 And as soon as that happened, I was just like, "Oh my God, we need to, we 01:01:12.348 --> 01:01:16.448 need to record this." And, so we did. 01:01:16.688 --> 01:01:22.444 I kinda had my friend at the time with me do almost like a 180, or like 01:01:22.444 --> 01:01:26.684 a 360, I mean, just to show the area from where we were standing, just to 01:01:26.684 --> 01:01:33.998 kinda show you how big the cemetery is, and just, like, how close we were to, 01:01:33.998 --> 01:01:41.398 like, even the main road of where, uh, Mrs. Margaret Krieger and her family. 01:01:41.428 --> 01:01:46.268 So I, we basically went there not only to record for the video that I 01:01:46.468 --> 01:01:50.798 made, but just to pay our respects just because, you know, I felt that. 01:01:51.218 --> 01:01:55.918 But, I can at least say that, you know, the people that were the 01:01:56.058 --> 01:02:01.302 ones, accusing her to kill her husband, at least smartened up during 01:02:01.302 --> 01:02:04.802 the trial and said, "Hey, we're about to kill the innocent lady" 01:02:05.656 --> 01:02:06.126 Gab: Yeah 01:02:06.182 --> 01:02:06.992 Paul Dulski: Cause she's not coming back up." 01:02:07.321 --> 01:02:09.225 Gab: Pennsylvania is similar too. 01:02:09.225 --> 01:02:11.505 We only had one formal witch trial, 01:02:11.685 --> 01:02:12.275 Paul Dulski: Interesting. 01:02:12.435 --> 01:02:17.295 Gab: And it was before Salem, like almost like 10 years before Salem's trial. 01:02:17.721 --> 01:02:21.491 and they like really credit like William Penn. He was like providing 01:02:21.491 --> 01:02:26.615 over the court at the time, and they didn't find her guilty of witchcraft. 01:02:26.625 --> 01:02:30.750 They found her guilty of having the reputation of being a witch. 01:02:31.139 --> 01:02:32.119 Jody: Guilty of being a woman. 01:02:32.655 --> 01:02:33.195 Gab: Yeah. 01:02:33.205 --> 01:02:34.445 So they just had to like- 01:02:34.581 --> 01:02:35.321 Paul Dulski: that's what it sounds like 01:02:35.535 --> 01:02:37.785 Gab: pay a fine and like that was it. 01:02:38.115 --> 01:02:41.825 But that's, uh, like that trial, if it had gone differently, I think 01:02:41.825 --> 01:02:46.075 about how we could have also had the same hysteria that they had in Salem 01:02:46.601 --> 01:02:49.281 Paul Dulski: do you know how much this quote fine was? 01:02:49.281 --> 01:02:50.161 I'm just curious 01:02:50.655 --> 01:02:52.725 Gab: I think it was like 50 pounds. 01:02:53.205 --> 01:02:53.715 Paul Dulski: Damn. 01:02:54.060 --> 01:02:54.517 Gab: Yeah 01:02:55.253 --> 01:02:55.653 Paul Dulski: Wow. 01:02:56.137 --> 01:02:57.347 Jesus Chrimey. 01:02:57.797 --> 01:03:00.537 I mean, I'll tell you, I'd rather definitely take the fine than what 01:03:00.537 --> 01:03:03.327 we're all used to hearing about with witch trials, that's for sure 01:03:03.621 --> 01:03:04.051 Gab: Yeah 01:03:04.601 --> 01:03:05.421 Paul Dulski: That's sad though. 01:03:05.471 --> 01:03:06.631 Um, what else? 01:03:07.244 --> 01:03:09.114 Oh yeah, Jody wanted to know about cryptids. 01:03:09.654 --> 01:03:16.224 Uh, so there are tons of activity when it comes to Bigfoot here. 01:03:16.534 --> 01:03:21.174 I mean, there was an old newspaper article that even my dad kept in a 01:03:21.204 --> 01:03:23.764 book that he had that I actually found. 01:03:24.114 --> 01:03:27.954 And as soon as I saw that book, I immediately grabbed it just because 01:03:28.034 --> 01:03:31.464 of obviously what I had mentioned about what my aunt had said it. 01:03:31.804 --> 01:03:35.514 Just when I was trying to look for a simple book about witchcraft that my dad 01:03:35.514 --> 01:03:39.254 had, because I thought it was interesting that my dad had a witchcraft book. 01:03:39.554 --> 01:03:43.904 And of course, this was around the time when I wanted to learn different things. 01:03:44.494 --> 01:03:51.974 And, um, so I think honestly from that point on, Jody, is I think that's 01:03:51.994 --> 01:03:56.674 when I started to realize that I don't think Roman Catholic is really for me. 01:03:58.035 --> 01:04:01.402 Because if you're supposed to love everybody and this and that, 01:04:01.452 --> 01:04:04.095 And like, you know, help thy neighbor and stuff like that, 01:04:04.155 --> 01:04:08.245 that was totally not helping or working at that timeframe at all. 01:04:08.645 --> 01:04:15.935 So, um, yeah, but when I started to learn, you know, the whole Wiccan paganism, 01:04:15.935 --> 01:04:20.915 that stuff, and the whole like the green thumb and everything else, and 01:04:20.915 --> 01:04:22.955 everything is like Mother Earth and Gaia. 01:04:23.535 --> 01:04:30.245 I, I like that approach better because the more that we appreciate Earth and 01:04:30.275 --> 01:04:37.255 the more that we don't do to our Earth, you know, it's not going to be a problem 01:04:37.295 --> 01:04:41.555 in the future to come, which, uh, unfortunately, we're probably gonna be 01:04:41.555 --> 01:04:47.412 getting some bad consequences in the next 30 years for what we have already done 01:04:48.002 --> 01:04:52.012 . So yeah, it's gonna retaliate somehow in the next 30 years on us. 01:04:52.682 --> 01:04:57.782 But um, yeah, that's just the way my mind has shifted to think. 01:04:57.812 --> 01:05:01.212 But anyway, that newspaper article, and I can actually kind of see it 01:05:01.222 --> 01:05:06.332 from my r- uh, like where I am right now, but it's literally entitled, 01:05:06.942 --> 01:05:08.472 "Does Vermont Have a Bigfoot?" 01:05:08.692 --> 01:05:11.059 Or, "Is There a Bigfoot in Vermont," or whatever. 01:05:11.729 --> 01:05:16.139 And it talked about a local author in New York, Paul Bartholomew, who did 01:05:16.159 --> 01:05:25.105 like a talk at, school, and like how this old photo from Chittenden was 01:05:25.105 --> 01:05:29.405 captured, and it looked like there's something weird in the background. 01:05:29.595 --> 01:05:30.315 It was interesting. 01:05:30.345 --> 01:05:35.215 That's how I kinda stepped foot into the cryptid world on my end. 01:05:35.855 --> 01:05:42.745 Now- The only thing that I can say that involved my family is my 01:05:42.745 --> 01:05:45.305 dad used to share with me a story. 01:05:45.545 --> 01:05:51.555 I wish I knew more about this obviously, but this is what I can recall, is 01:05:52.065 --> 01:05:56.895 my dad mentioned about this private camp somewhere around West Rutland. 01:05:57.815 --> 01:05:59.515 It was like a, one of those hunter camps, 01:05:59.515 --> 01:05:59.995 I guess. 01:06:00.183 --> 01:06:00.513 Jody: Mm-hmm. 01:06:00.605 --> 01:06:03.415 Paul Dulski: The difference is though, when you actually see this hunter's 01:06:03.415 --> 01:06:05.515 camp, it's not what you think it is. 01:06:05.555 --> 01:06:06.945 At least to me it's not. 01:06:07.705 --> 01:06:13.135 So this is like a two-story house in a way, and there was like a porch 01:06:13.165 --> 01:06:17.635 attached to it, and there was like a small little tree outside of it, 01:06:18.105 --> 01:06:20.705 like a crab tree, one of those type of trees. 01:06:21.305 --> 01:06:22.295 Those are like, what? 01:06:22.295 --> 01:06:23.145 They grow to be like 01:06:23.175 --> 01:06:23.785 10 feet tall? 01:06:23.969 --> 01:06:24.249 Jody: Yeah. 01:06:24.279 --> 01:06:24.409 Yeah. 01:06:24.409 --> 01:06:24.529 No more. 01:06:24.529 --> 01:06:25.039 Paul Dulski: Something like that. 01:06:25.229 --> 01:06:25.539 Jody: Yeah 01:06:25.945 --> 01:06:31.165 Paul Dulski: He recalled there was a night where him and whoever was there 01:06:31.625 --> 01:06:33.445 were all inside with the light on. 01:06:34.065 --> 01:06:42.305 But as they looked outside, they noticed a, the dark black silhouette of something 01:06:42.385 --> 01:06:44.175 just standing next to that tree, 01:06:44.261 --> 01:06:44.271 Jody: Mm-hmm. 01:06:44.755 --> 01:06:48.525 Paul Dulski: almost as if it was appearing to be staring back into 01:06:49.335 --> 01:06:53.245 the, uh, you know, the cabin, the house, whatever you wanna call it. 01:06:53.795 --> 01:07:01.735 But from what I can remember, he never mentioned eye shine or some sort of glow. 01:07:01.795 --> 01:07:05.975 He just said it's a black silhouette, and it was basically 01:07:05.975 --> 01:07:07.845 about as tall as that tree. 01:07:08.195 --> 01:07:10.725 So that would put it about, uh, 10 feet tall 01:07:10.917 --> 01:07:11.167 Jody: Yeah. 01:07:11.777 --> 01:07:13.897 Just a dark shadow void of light sort of thing. 01:07:14.278 --> 01:07:14.888 Paul Dulski: Exactly. 01:07:15.350 --> 01:07:15.774 Jody: Yeah 01:07:16.051 --> 01:07:18.121 Paul Dulski: That's all, and that's unfortunately all I can 01:07:18.121 --> 01:07:20.331 remember that he would share 01:07:21.338 --> 01:07:25.021 Gab: What about, uh, what do you know about the Black Agnes statue? 01:07:26.021 --> 01:07:26.871 Paul Dulski: Black Aggie. 01:07:27.346 --> 01:07:28.726 Jody: Oh, he's got a nickname for her. 01:07:30.492 --> 01:07:34.472 Paul Dulski: Yeah, the, um, I've been to the statue myself, 01:07:34.472 --> 01:07:35.782 just like a lot of people have. 01:07:36.192 --> 01:07:40.682 I am not one of those ones that have sat in on the lap just to test the theory. 01:07:40.752 --> 01:07:43.042 I don't know if I ever would, to be honest. 01:07:43.372 --> 01:07:49.388 Not because I'm, petrified to do it, it's just what if I would be that one dude that 01:07:49.388 --> 01:07:51.048 would just have something happen to him? 01:07:51.238 --> 01:07:51.778 You know? 01:07:51.914 --> 01:07:52.680 Jody: So how does that work? 01:07:52.680 --> 01:07:53.070 All right. 01:07:53.070 --> 01:07:55.590 Cause 'cause it, we, we know about, you know, like bloody Mary. 01:07:55.590 --> 01:07:58.080 If you you know, you sit in front of the mirror, light a candle, 01:07:58.080 --> 01:08:00.330 and you you say her name three times, spin around, whatever. 01:08:00.540 --> 01:08:02.760 How does the Black agnes, uh, legend work? 01:08:02.760 --> 01:08:05.130 How do, what's, what's the, what's the theory on that? 01:08:05.130 --> 01:08:08.582 What's the, what are the steps you have to take to make her appear or whatever? 01:08:09.062 --> 01:08:12.164 Paul Dulski: Well, that's actually some of it, to be honest. 01:08:12.164 --> 01:08:16.144 some of it is literally just staring in, in the mirror and you could just 01:08:16.144 --> 01:08:18.294 say, you know, Black Aggie three times. 01:08:18.834 --> 01:08:21.544 It's almost like that bloody mirror thing all over again. 01:08:21.654 --> 01:08:22.057 Jody: Really? 01:08:22.334 --> 01:08:26.474 Paul Dulski: Yeah, so the only other difference though is you can actually go 01:08:26.514 --> 01:08:28.774 to the statue and just sit on the lap. 01:08:29.280 --> 01:08:32.640 Which is supposed to be the biggest no-no you wanna do, because if 01:08:32.680 --> 01:08:37.430 you sit on the, the lap, you're supposed to die within seven days. 01:08:37.960 --> 01:08:43.647 Now, I've heard stories, I have not been able to back it up with any 01:08:43.667 --> 01:08:47.917 sort of newspaper to this, but I did have a local author on that has 01:08:47.927 --> 01:08:54.423 confirmed that these stories were, were told about Black Aggie or Agnes. 01:08:54.513 --> 01:09:00.473 And that was these three people sat on the lap one time, and this is what happened. 01:09:00.483 --> 01:09:04.796 One died from a car crash, one died by being drowned by his 01:09:04.796 --> 01:09:10.546 own canoe or kayak, and another one really badly broke his arm. 01:09:10.866 --> 01:09:12.116 Jody: And that's all verifiable? 01:09:12.379 --> 01:09:15.699 Paul Dulski: See, that's the thing, I can't find that verifiable 01:09:15.839 --> 01:09:19.429 fact, but that's the story- 01:09:19.633 --> 01:09:20.063 Jody: Yeah 01:09:20.739 --> 01:09:23.469 Paul Dulski: That is surrounding that statue. 01:09:23.509 --> 01:09:29.619 Now, the only other interesting part to this Black Agnes is everybody 01:09:29.639 --> 01:09:33.279 thinks this statue belongs to a female. 01:09:33.299 --> 01:09:35.009 It's actually a male, 01:09:35.057 --> 01:09:35.347 Gab: Mm-hmm. 01:09:35.689 --> 01:09:37.529 Paul Dulski: like John Hubbard or Seth Hubbard. 01:09:37.589 --> 01:09:39.339 I can't remember which name right now. 01:09:40.089 --> 01:09:44.799 Um, but yeah, everybody thinks it's a female spirit when it's really not 01:09:45.059 --> 01:09:45.949 Jody: Oh, wow 01:09:46.357 --> 01:09:47.344 I did not know that 01:09:47.561 --> 01:09:51.831 Paul Dulski: Um, the only other thing too that I can suggest is our 01:09:51.841 --> 01:09:54.171 Black Aggie is not the only one. 01:09:54.391 --> 01:10:02.384 There's one in Washington DC and there's one in, uh, Illinois 01:10:02.860 --> 01:10:06.840 I have a few people in Illinois, and I tried reaching out to both of 01:10:06.840 --> 01:10:11.140 them to see if they knew anything about their version of Black Aggie, 01:10:11.140 --> 01:10:13.000 but I never heard back from them. 01:10:13.030 --> 01:10:14.820 So I don't, I don't know what any of these 01:10:14.820 --> 01:10:15.560 other ones are 01:10:15.710 --> 01:10:17.534 Jody: it would be interesting to see if they were, they 01:10:17.534 --> 01:10:19.174 were similar, if the stories 01:10:19.174 --> 01:10:19.654 are similar. 01:10:20.091 --> 01:10:24.351 Paul Dulski: Now that I think about it, I did have this old author on that may 01:10:24.361 --> 01:10:27.097 have talked about them a little bit. 01:10:27.197 --> 01:10:29.487 Uh, what was his name? 01:10:29.811 --> 01:10:31.741 I think his name is like JW Ocker. 01:10:32.517 --> 01:10:33.517 Gab: Oh yeah, I love him 01:10:33.747 --> 01:10:36.617 Paul Dulski: Yeah, he came on my show one time and he mentioned 01:10:36.647 --> 01:10:38.617 something about these statues. 01:10:39.007 --> 01:10:43.647 So unfortunately I can't remember what he said, but yeah, it's on that 01:10:43.677 --> 01:10:47.277 episode I'm pretty sure he talked about the, uh, the three statues, with me? 01:10:48.097 --> 01:10:48.557 Gab: Yeah 01:10:48.868 --> 01:10:51.928 Paul Dulski: There was something else too with Black Agnes that I was gonna share. 01:10:51.928 --> 01:10:53.588 Now I'm trying to remember what the hell it was. 01:10:53.868 --> 01:10:59.555 Oh, there's people nowadays that have sat in on her lap or his lap, and, 01:10:59.665 --> 01:11:06.045 um, where they've actually taken their pictures on it too and stuff like that. 01:11:06.745 --> 01:11:12.475 And, you know, they're like, "See, I'm okay." it goes to show like, going 01:11:12.485 --> 01:11:17.938 back to I think how we all talk with our group chats and stuff, is if 01:11:17.938 --> 01:11:25.608 we look at the superstition, is it the power of the fact of do we 01:11:25.618 --> 01:11:27.718 really believe in that superstition? 01:11:28.118 --> 01:11:34.598 Whereas if I were to go to that statue and sit on the lap, I'm gonna be petrified 01:11:34.598 --> 01:11:36.988 that I am gonna die within that week. 01:11:37.468 --> 01:11:39.838 Like is that, would that be what it is? 01:11:39.848 --> 01:11:42.558 Or is it me kind of who would go in there sitting on it like 01:11:42.558 --> 01:11:44.458 nothing's gonna happen and be fine? 01:11:44.818 --> 01:11:48.908 Like how, it's all back to the mind and how you implant 01:11:48.918 --> 01:11:50.618 yourself with everything really 01:11:51.025 --> 01:11:52.255 Jody: Yeah, it's power of suggestion. 01:11:52.281 --> 01:11:52.747 Gab: Yeah. 01:11:53.263 --> 01:11:53.552 Jody: Yeah. 01:11:53.777 --> 01:11:54.047 Paul Dulski: Yeah. 01:11:54.047 --> 01:11:54.377 That, 01:11:54.487 --> 01:11:55.267 Gab: Definitely. 01:11:55.660 --> 01:11:58.470 I feel like my anxiety would be what gets me if I did it. 01:11:58.470 --> 01:12:00.440 Jody: Your anxiety would definitely get to you. 01:12:00.850 --> 01:12:03.950 Gab: I would be like for seven days, anything, anything. 01:12:03.970 --> 01:12:05.820 I'd sneeze and be like, Oh, this is cause 01:12:05.820 --> 01:12:07.290 I sat on black Agnes." 01:12:08.312 --> 01:12:10.962 Paul Dulski: Oh man, my organs are gonna shoot out of my nose now 01:12:11.046 --> 01:12:11.306 Gab: Yeah. 01:12:11.562 --> 01:12:12.072 Paul Dulski: Oh no. 01:12:12.476 --> 01:12:12.996 Gab: Yeah. 01:12:13.996 --> 01:12:14.876 Like anything. 01:12:15.887 --> 01:12:18.407 Paul Dulski: Hey, hey babe, can you buy bubble wrap? 01:12:18.467 --> 01:12:18.857 Why? 01:12:18.907 --> 01:12:22.567 Because I'm gonna sit on Black Aggie's, uh, lap, so I just wanna 01:12:22.567 --> 01:12:24.077 be covered in this human bubble. 01:12:24.077 --> 01:12:25.387 Can you get me one real quick? 01:12:25.401 --> 01:12:25.841 Gab: Yeah. 01:12:27.187 --> 01:12:31.587 Paul Dulski: no, but what's interesting is where this statue is. 01:12:31.687 --> 01:12:34.887 It's in, uh, Green Mount Cemetery, which is in Montpelier, 01:12:34.897 --> 01:12:36.947 basically Vermont's capital. 01:12:37.487 --> 01:12:37.667 Jody: Mm-hmm. 01:12:37.997 --> 01:12:41.960 Paul Dulski: And when you actually go there, especially like on a 01:12:41.960 --> 01:12:47.340 day that we went, where it's kinda gloomy and rainy, like it really 01:12:47.350 --> 01:12:50.450 does give off this weird feeling. 01:12:51.450 --> 01:12:57.250 And when you actually see the statue itself along with the, uh, just the 01:12:57.250 --> 01:13:01.550 grave in general, just because of how big it is, 'cause it's not just a statue. 01:13:01.600 --> 01:13:02.710 There's more to it- 01:13:02.812 --> 01:13:03.312 Gab: Yeah 01:13:03.350 --> 01:13:04.090 Paul Dulski: than just a statue. 01:13:04.860 --> 01:13:10.760 And, um, but then like when you check out the other, uh, graves 01:13:10.790 --> 01:13:14.150 that are in the cemetery, like there's one that looks like a house. 01:13:14.890 --> 01:13:16.480 another one of like a dog. 01:13:16.480 --> 01:13:20.620 There's another one of, of an angel that supposedly cries blood, 01:13:20.636 --> 01:13:21.446 Gab: Yes 01:13:22.446 --> 01:13:27.816 Paul Dulski: yeah, there's a lot of weird, you know, weird things 01:13:27.856 --> 01:13:29.606 being said about that cemetery 01:13:29.954 --> 01:13:30.404 Gab: Yeah 01:13:30.631 --> 01:13:34.068 Jody: I could tell Gab's plotting out a trip to Vermont at some point 01:13:34.318 --> 01:13:35.378 Gab: I love graves. 01:13:35.838 --> 01:13:38.756 Jody: We have to visit a a cemetery in every, every trip we go on. 01:13:38.876 --> 01:13:39.276 Gab: Mm-hmm. 01:13:39.356 --> 01:13:41.616 I find Something interesting in every one. 01:13:41.786 --> 01:13:43.870 Jody: And you've given her a lot of material to work with here, Paul. 01:13:44.779 --> 01:13:45.256 A lot. 01:13:45.657 --> 01:13:46.687 Paul Dulski: No, that's fine. 01:13:46.697 --> 01:13:47.527 That's fine, Jody. 01:13:47.527 --> 01:13:52.577 Um, I was just gonna say real quick though is like, uh, when was it? 01:13:52.577 --> 01:13:55.337 The, the, the last weekend. 01:13:55.767 --> 01:13:56.247 Last weekend. 01:13:56.307 --> 01:13:57.277 Yeah, last weekend. 01:13:57.804 --> 01:14:02.381 my lady and I were talking about how like if the weather was more nicer that 01:14:02.381 --> 01:14:06.621 we would have loved to have been able to, you know, go for a cemetery walk. 01:14:06.661 --> 01:14:10.281 Because I've gotten her now to the point where she wants 01:14:10.281 --> 01:14:11.831 to do cemetery walks with me. 01:14:11.901 --> 01:14:15.071 'Cause she was, she was into the paranormal but she wasn't 01:14:15.631 --> 01:14:17.921 into the paranormal until we 01:14:17.921 --> 01:14:18.591 got together. 01:14:18.771 --> 01:14:19.221 Jody: Gotcha. 01:14:19.481 --> 01:14:20.011 your fault. 01:14:20.145 --> 01:14:20.835 Paul Dulski: Yep, it is. 01:14:20.855 --> 01:14:21.135 Totally 01:14:22.191 --> 01:14:22.221 Gab: Mm-hmm. 01:14:22.841 --> 01:14:25.591 Jody: It's funny, we, we used to walk in a cemetery just to, to, 01:14:25.701 --> 01:14:26.721 I guess, stay in shape, right? 01:14:26.731 --> 01:14:27.792 Just to go for a morning walk. 01:14:27.883 --> 01:14:28.263 Gab: Yeah. 01:14:28.659 --> 01:14:29.731 Jody: Cause we have one close by. 01:14:29.781 --> 01:14:30.710 Yeah, it's, it's funny. 01:14:31.244 --> 01:14:31.384 They're 01:14:31.384 --> 01:14:32.314 good places to walk. 01:14:32.607 --> 01:14:33.727 Paul Dulski: Yeah, exactly. 01:14:33.727 --> 01:14:35.207 I have one right by me too. 01:14:35.207 --> 01:14:39.437 But I mean, for a while I wouldn't even trust walking down there just because 01:14:39.437 --> 01:14:40.791 of the, the neighbors that were there. 01:14:40.791 --> 01:14:44.451 But, uh, that problem has kind of resolved, so thank goodness. 01:14:45.281 --> 01:14:45.891 But yeah. 01:14:46.331 --> 01:14:50.761 Because of my lady who's sound like Gab in a way, how she's sensible with 01:14:50.771 --> 01:14:58.181 stuff, sometimes if I can't seem to find something in the cemetery, all I just 01:14:58.181 --> 01:15:02.811 need to do is grab my lady and she will find it, the grave for me basically. 01:15:03.249 --> 01:15:03.799 Gab: Yeah 01:15:04.187 --> 01:15:07.497 Paul Dulski: so I mean, she helps in that way. 01:15:07.655 --> 01:15:07.885 Jody: Yeah 01:15:08.387 --> 01:15:11.377 Paul Dulski: A quick story I can give if there's still time for that. 01:15:11.717 --> 01:15:20.387 Last year in May 2025, I had taken a day off from work because me and this guy who 01:15:20.387 --> 01:15:27.257 had n- uh, who had a story of a different place that I had went to talked about 01:15:27.267 --> 01:15:31.827 this ghost app that he used and some of the responses that were coming through. 01:15:32.257 --> 01:15:36.117 And I said, "Huh, that's interesting." Even though I don't really know how I 01:15:36.117 --> 01:15:42.207 feel about ghost apps, I was just like, "Well, whatever." I was like, " "I can 01:15:42.267 --> 01:15:48.267 take you to a couple places if you really wanna try to get into this paranormal 01:15:48.297 --> 01:15:53.507 thing, and we'll take a look at what your ghost app kinda says or whatever 01:15:53.517 --> 01:15:59.207 and go, go by that." So We went to three areas for three different cemeteries. 01:16:00.207 --> 01:16:04.594 The last one we went to was, New Haven, Vermont. 01:16:05.594 --> 01:16:11.961 It was the Evergreen Cemetery there that is known to man that sounds weird. 01:16:11.981 --> 01:16:15.201 I'm gonna say host, but I don't know how else to make it. 01:16:15.201 --> 01:16:19.911 But it's the burial home of, uh, Tiffany Clark Smith, known as The 01:16:19.911 --> 01:16:25.141 Grave With the Window here in Vermont, who was, uh, basically a- afraid to 01:16:25.141 --> 01:16:29.461 be buried alive, therefore he wanted his grave to have furniture in it. 01:16:29.711 --> 01:16:30.931 He wanted a window. 01:16:30.941 --> 01:16:32.491 He wanted a small hammer. 01:16:32.911 --> 01:16:34.871 He wanted a bell. 01:16:35.251 --> 01:16:37.581 He wanted, uh, what else? 01:16:37.651 --> 01:16:42.731 Some sort of stair to get to the window, so he could smash the window to give 01:16:42.741 --> 01:16:48.611 for a call for help if she did in fact wake up in a premature burial situation. 01:16:49.291 --> 01:16:56.851 Now, um, what's ironic about this trip this time around though is I don't know 01:16:56.851 --> 01:17:01.131 about you guys, but sometimes when I go to cemeteries, if I'm looking for 01:17:01.151 --> 01:17:07.731 a specific person, sometimes I don't really pay attention to what is actually 01:17:07.731 --> 01:17:10.061 around me in the cemetery as a whole. 01:17:10.601 --> 01:17:13.341 I just look for, like, something unusual. 01:17:13.341 --> 01:17:19.131 Like in this case, you're looking for a little hill, basically, with a window on 01:17:19.131 --> 01:17:23.241 top of it right next to, uh, you know, a stone or a couple stones, basically. 01:17:23.407 --> 01:17:23.417 Jody: Mm-hmm. 01:17:23.821 --> 01:17:30.191 Paul Dulski: Um, and easy enough for this cemetery is he was really easy to find 01:17:30.901 --> 01:17:37.554 s- because, like, right in the, uh, the entranceway of this, particular cemetery. 01:17:37.554 --> 01:17:46.700 Anyway, so, we get there with, my now friend Robert with his ghost app and- I 01:17:46.700 --> 01:17:51.710 just wanna say even for your listeners, I did have some equipment with me but 01:17:51.710 --> 01:17:57.630 I, I never brought it out to record anything especially with his ghost app 01:17:57.690 --> 01:18:02.600 that was, going off in the cemetery because it was raining so I didn't 01:18:02.620 --> 01:18:04.250 really wanna get the equipment wet. 01:18:04.560 --> 01:18:04.840 Jody: Mm-hmm. 01:18:04.940 --> 01:18:07.370 Paul Dulski: we were just kinda going off his phone would respond to it. 01:18:07.370 --> 01:18:12.070 Plus I didn't really think it was gonna really go off that much. 01:18:12.620 --> 01:18:13.890 Boy was I wrong. 01:18:14.890 --> 01:18:21.357 Anyway, long story short, I'll give some response examples There was 01:18:21.367 --> 01:18:26.807 some responses that came through with a Theresa, an Anne, 19, 01:18:27.107 --> 01:18:32.067 um, it went into, like, a table. 01:18:32.337 --> 01:18:33.737 It went into angel. 01:18:33.757 --> 01:18:35.587 It went into blacksmith. 01:18:35.877 --> 01:18:39.707 Like, all kinds of weird shit that you would just be like, "Okay, this 01:18:39.737 --> 01:18:46.857 is not normal." Then we kinda got to the point where it wasn't raining as 01:18:46.867 --> 01:18:50.857 hard, so we were able to walk around a little bit more, because once we started 01:18:50.897 --> 01:18:54.987 to get names like Theresa and Anne, we were trying to walk to see if we 01:18:54.987 --> 01:18:58.847 could, you know, see if we could find, like, a Theresa or Anne or whatever. 01:18:59.647 --> 01:19:05.607 And, um, we found a table, quote, "table." It was basically one of 01:19:05.607 --> 01:19:10.817 those great big gravestones, but it was laid out like a table. 01:19:11.817 --> 01:19:18.367 Because of it being so big and wide, it pretty much was set up like a table 01:19:19.167 --> 01:19:25.917 because if it was upright like a normal headstone, and if it would fall, that 01:19:25.917 --> 01:19:28.007 whole thing would just smash, I feel like. 01:19:28.017 --> 01:19:31.147 So I think that is why it got laid out as a table. 01:19:31.647 --> 01:19:36.687 So we could check that off, that, of what it meant by a table. 01:19:37.427 --> 01:19:38.917 Now, I just said blacksmith. 01:19:39.917 --> 01:19:46.694 There was, and is, I should say, a, stone head that actually had 01:19:46.694 --> 01:19:52.767 a, uh, blacksmith's, anvil, I think I said that right, on top of it. 01:19:53.317 --> 01:19:55.537 So that was, again, odd. 01:19:56.367 --> 01:19:59.737 At the time, though, we could not find Theresa and Anne or 01:19:59.737 --> 01:20:01.797 whatever 19 was supposed to mean. 01:20:02.201 --> 01:20:07.731 Now, we went around this big, bush, I'll just say, for lack of wording, 01:20:07.751 --> 01:20:09.501 but there was also some trees. 01:20:09.974 --> 01:20:12.944 Now, this is where it kinda gets interesting a- and funny. 01:20:12.994 --> 01:20:14.044 I thought it was funny. 01:20:15.044 --> 01:20:22.214 the graves around the tree and this bush, they're not even facing, forward like 01:20:22.224 --> 01:20:24.494 a, you know, like a normal headstone. 01:20:24.574 --> 01:20:28.474 Instead, they're facing the opposite way. 01:20:28.884 --> 01:20:34.234 So, like, in order to read the headstone, you would have to basically 01:20:34.254 --> 01:20:40.571 somehow dive into this bush and basically read it in that way, or 01:20:40.621 --> 01:20:46.997 somehow try to find yourself the right angle around the tree to read it. 01:20:47.427 --> 01:20:52.574 But anyway, to make this funny Is his ghost app at that point in time 01:20:52.634 --> 01:20:57.334 when Robert and I acknowledged that these graves were facing the wrong 01:20:57.334 --> 01:21:02.174 way and we can't read it, I kinda said something to the effect of, " How are 01:21:02.174 --> 01:21:06.624 we supposed to read these gravestones if they're faced towards something 01:21:06.624 --> 01:21:09.094 blocking what is, is being read, uh said 01:21:09.348 --> 01:21:09.618 Jody: Mm-hmm. 01:21:10.864 --> 01:21:15.324 Paul Dulski: The ghost app said, "Pathetic." then I was just like, "Yeah, 01:21:15.324 --> 01:21:20.384 you're damn right, it is pathetic." And then the ghost app goes, "Move it." 01:21:20.804 --> 01:21:27.774 And I was just like, "No, we, we, we cannot move all three graves to read 01:21:27.784 --> 01:21:31.344 them." So that's the way we took it. 01:21:31.814 --> 01:21:41.444 But what was odd is after all this happened, 24 hours later, uh, my lady 01:21:41.444 --> 01:21:47.404 and I went out, back out here because Robert wasn't able to join us again. 01:21:47.887 --> 01:21:52.897 This time Tessa had found Theresa's grave. 01:21:53.897 --> 01:21:54.177 Jody: Oh, wow 01:21:55.105 --> 01:22:00.055 Paul Dulski: And we can verify we found the right one because 01:22:01.055 --> 01:22:06.455 her sister was named Ann, A-N-N. 01:22:07.455 --> 01:22:08.385 We found that. 01:22:08.405 --> 01:22:11.285 We found the family plot. 01:22:11.762 --> 01:22:16.319 Now, I know I haven't mentioned it yet, so let's get to it. 01:22:16.539 --> 01:22:19.369 So 19, what is this 19 supposed to represent? 01:22:19.785 --> 01:22:27.588 Well, after doing some digging, Theresa A. Sturdivant, Jacobs, 01:22:27.618 --> 01:22:32.838 'cause she was married to a guy by the name Albert W. Jacobs. 01:22:33.488 --> 01:22:36.038 She got married to him at the age of 19. 01:22:36.068 --> 01:22:44.491 She also died at the age of 19 on January 19th, 1852 01:22:44.994 --> 01:22:45.724 Jody: Well, there you go. 01:22:46.120 --> 01:22:49.690 Paul Dulski: now one thing I probably forgot to mention, 01:22:49.810 --> 01:22:50.820 so I'm gonna say it now. 01:22:51.410 --> 01:22:56.490 Uh, initially when we went there, when Robert and I, the ghost app had 01:22:56.490 --> 01:23:03.494 started to go send some chilling, questions at us, which was, "Am I dead? 01:23:04.254 --> 01:23:06.914 Can you see me?" And stuff like that. 01:23:07.158 --> 01:23:07.348 Jody: Mm-hmm. 01:23:07.624 --> 01:23:13.157 Paul Dulski: And that's when I was just like, "Oh, boy." What I find interesting, 01:23:13.667 --> 01:23:21.287 24 hours later and such, is I cannot, and even to this day right now, I even 01:23:21.287 --> 01:23:27.667 just tried looking again just to make sure like nothing got re-uploaded as of recent. 01:23:28.507 --> 01:23:34.964 I could not find this Teresa's death certificate to say how she died. 01:23:35.390 --> 01:23:41.230 And so is that why the ghost app had responded with, "Am I dead?" 01:23:41.634 --> 01:23:49.557 And what's odd is I could find her husband death certificate no problem. 01:23:50.187 --> 01:23:57.594 And he died August 2nd, 1854 at the age of 26, 27. 01:23:57.708 --> 01:23:58.008 Jody: Mm-hmm. 01:23:58.497 --> 01:24:01.577 Paul Dulski: And, um, he died from tuberculosis. 01:24:02.577 --> 01:24:03.647 Gab: So he was a vampire? 01:24:03.747 --> 01:24:03.917 No… 01:24:04.647 --> 01:24:08.754 Paul Dulski: Right, right so it just makes me wonder though, like, 01:24:09.214 --> 01:24:16.644 did Theresa maybe, you know, meet her demise by tuberculosis too? 01:24:16.794 --> 01:24:22.014 But then it's weird because if I can find her husband death certificate, 01:24:22.054 --> 01:24:28.724 even the fodder d- death certificate for both, um, people on each side 01:24:28.724 --> 01:24:32.914 of the, you know, families, and they were married, why can't I find hers? 01:24:33.374 --> 01:24:33.804 Gab: Yeah. 01:24:34.074 --> 01:24:35.014 Could be like a clerical 01:24:35.046 --> 01:24:35.244 error 01:24:36.244 --> 01:24:36.764 Paul Dulski: maybe. 01:24:37.107 --> 01:24:41.577 But I've tried newspapers, I've tried the historical society and everything 01:24:41.577 --> 01:24:43.554 like that, and they, they have nothing 01:24:44.037 --> 01:24:44.417 Gab: Wow. 01:24:44.894 --> 01:24:45.834 It's like she didn't exist 01:24:46.350 --> 01:24:46.960 Paul Dulski: Right. 01:24:47.490 --> 01:24:54.480 But the only meat I can share about this Teresa is there is 01:24:54.740 --> 01:24:56.950 a burial record, and that's it. 01:24:57.388 --> 01:24:57.838 Gab: Yeah 01:24:58.080 --> 01:24:58.350 Paul Dulski: There's no death. 01:24:58.450 --> 01:25:02.650 But I did find the, uh, the marriage certificate, but there's not a death. 01:25:03.114 --> 01:25:03.554 Gab: Wow 01:25:03.592 --> 01:25:04.532 Paul Dulski: Why is that, though? 01:25:04.612 --> 01:25:05.162 I don't know 01:25:05.592 --> 01:25:05.942 Gab: Yeah. 01:25:06.132 --> 01:25:06.852 That's crazy 01:25:07.335 --> 01:25:07.765 Paul Dulski: Mm-hmm. 01:25:08.075 --> 01:25:11.200 Speaking of vampires, I, completely forgot about this when 01:25:11.220 --> 01:25:12.520 I was talking about Dummerston. 01:25:12.600 --> 01:25:17.580 So when I went to find Dummerston the vampire, then I, after finding the family 01:25:17.580 --> 01:25:22.210 plot again from, both cemeteries, because since they're buried in two cemeteries, 01:25:22.580 --> 01:25:28.030 I should say that there was at one point, me and my friend that went with me that 01:25:28.040 --> 01:25:33.570 time, we found this like lonely grave in a way, way back of the first cemetery. 01:25:34.500 --> 01:25:40.510 And, and I mean so old that like nobody seemed to have taken 01:25:40.600 --> 01:25:42.620 care of this grave in forever. 01:25:43.210 --> 01:25:49.200 And I think because of my interaction with this grave, just to wipe off some of 01:25:49.200 --> 01:25:57.030 the moss, , and dirt, and etc., Just to kinda see who this grave once belonged to. 01:25:57.930 --> 01:26:03.880 You know, uh, later on that night after coming home, throwing the video together 01:26:03.880 --> 01:26:09.150 of the Dummerston vampire thing that, we did that day, later on that night 01:26:09.850 --> 01:26:15.017 I went to bed, and by Sunday morning at 3:00 AM my bedroom light came on. 01:26:15.527 --> 01:26:20.927 And m- and I'm not talking like one of those switches, I'm talking like a poster. 01:26:21.927 --> 01:26:24.047 And that went off at like 3:00 AM. 01:26:24.661 --> 01:26:25.121 Gab: Wow 01:26:25.227 --> 01:26:30.097 Paul Dulski: of course I w- so I woke up and I was just like, first off, I 01:26:30.097 --> 01:26:34.417 was kinda pissed off because of how bright the light is, especially at 3:00 01:26:34.417 --> 01:26:34.957 AM. 01:26:35.277 --> 01:26:35.847 Gab: Yeah 01:26:35.857 --> 01:26:38.127 Paul Dulski: And I kinda stood up and I was just like 01:26:38.347 --> 01:26:40.167 thinking, I'm like, "Oh my gosh." 01:26:40.237 --> 01:26:43.757 I'm like, "Oh, geez, I'm…" Like something followed me home or whatever. 01:26:43.757 --> 01:26:47.557 And I'm just like, "Yes, I acknowledge that you're trying to get my 01:26:47.557 --> 01:26:49.957 attention, but you just woke me up. 01:26:50.157 --> 01:26:51.067 That is rude. 01:26:51.347 --> 01:26:52.277 I'm going back to bed. 01:26:52.277 --> 01:26:55.750 Is that okay?" And then I shut off the light and went back to bed 01:26:56.546 --> 01:26:57.246 Gab: Oh, wow. 01:26:58.220 --> 01:26:59.960 Sometimes that's all you have to do, right? 01:27:01.162 --> 01:27:04.142 Paul Dulski: You know, I mean, I think so. 01:27:04.162 --> 01:27:07.922 Because in this case, would that maybe just because I did thrust 01:27:07.922 --> 01:27:12.332 against like that grave just to see whose name was underneath all that 01:27:12.462 --> 01:27:14.762 crap because it hadn't been cleaned. 01:27:14.922 --> 01:27:20.579 And, um, just the fact it was almost like an acknowledgement of, you know, 01:27:20.579 --> 01:27:25.049 trying to be heard and appreciated again, if I can even say that. 01:27:25.375 --> 01:27:25.845 Gab: Yeah 01:27:26.339 --> 01:27:30.579 Paul Dulski: it's just the acknowledgement that I went over to wipe off some of 01:27:30.579 --> 01:27:32.539 it just to figure out who was there. 01:27:32.619 --> 01:27:37.809 I think it was enough for whomever to kinda try to say something 01:27:37.919 --> 01:27:39.719 like, "Hey," you know, "Thank you." 01:27:39.749 --> 01:27:42.179 I wasn't try to look at it as negative. 01:27:42.269 --> 01:27:45.639 just, you know, who wants to get woken up at 3:00 in the 01:27:45.649 --> 01:27:47.089 morning by a bright light though? 01:27:47.419 --> 01:27:47.879 Gab: Right 01:27:48.379 --> 01:27:50.439 So where can people find you? 01:27:51.439 --> 01:27:56.099 Paul Dulski: People can find me, um, and everywhere by just going 01:27:56.099 --> 01:27:59.549 to hauntedvermont.org, O-R-G. 01:27:59.619 --> 01:28:01.739 All my social media links are there. 01:28:02.039 --> 01:28:06.189 It's just pretty much easy to just, you know, have everything 01:28:06.219 --> 01:28:07.869 at the very top of the banner. 01:28:08.389 --> 01:28:11.809 And, if people wanna email me, there's a contact form there. 01:28:11.909 --> 01:28:16.729 I kinda made it have different pages of contact just because if you just 01:28:16.729 --> 01:28:20.379 wanna say hi, you want to request to be on a show, or you just have 01:28:20.379 --> 01:28:24.929 a story to submit, I kinda have the different pages just because some of 01:28:25.229 --> 01:28:33.099 the time I, I will allow people to submit me files via Dropbox, so I try 01:28:33.099 --> 01:28:35.569 to present it with that Dropbox file, 01:28:35.569 --> 01:28:37.659 Gab: We wanna thank you for coming on the show, paul. 01:28:37.659 --> 01:28:41.019 I know it's been a little while in the making, so we appreciate it 01:28:42.019 --> 01:28:42.789 Paul Dulski: absolutely. 01:28:42.789 --> 01:28:47.749 I, I know everybody's schedule is hectic nowadays, but it's always fun to be 01:28:47.749 --> 01:28:53.129 able to talk to like-minded people and just share something because in a way, 01:28:53.329 --> 01:28:58.256 like I try to say nowadays is some of the experiences I have may relate to 01:28:58.256 --> 01:29:01.856 somebody else and th- that would make them wanna share a little bit more 01:29:02.164 --> 01:29:02.554 Gab: Right. 01:29:02.584 --> 01:29:03.004 Yeah. 01:29:03.124 --> 01:29:03.914 Absolutely. 01:29:11.420 --> 01:29:14.529 Jody: So Paul got back to me and, he found the Certificate of Death 01:29:14.752 --> 01:29:16.572 for Theresa Sturdevant Jacobs. 01:29:16.758 --> 01:29:17.528 Gab: Oh wow. 01:29:17.568 --> 01:29:17.918 Jody: Yeah. 01:29:17.958 --> 01:29:20.238 So he's been telling us about this story for a while now. 01:29:20.410 --> 01:29:21.760 We talk to Paul every once in a while. 01:29:21.760 --> 01:29:23.140 We share text messages and all that. 01:29:23.140 --> 01:29:24.430 And he's been really into this. 01:29:24.430 --> 01:29:25.697 It's something he does. 01:29:26.010 --> 01:29:30.090 He likes to find really obscure information about cemeteries. 01:29:30.435 --> 01:29:30.825 Gab: Yeah. 01:29:30.990 --> 01:29:33.120 Jody: You know, people history. 01:29:33.720 --> 01:29:35.823 And he goes on a journey down the rabbit hole 01:29:35.936 --> 01:29:36.146 Gab: Mm-hmm. 01:29:36.186 --> 01:29:37.136 He takes a little side quest. 01:29:37.136 --> 01:29:37.236 Jody: Yeah. 01:29:37.416 --> 01:29:38.291 takes a little side quest. 01:29:39.202 --> 01:29:40.012 So he found it. 01:29:40.362 --> 01:29:41.232 and I'll see what he's got for me. 01:29:41.232 --> 01:29:42.072 I'll put it in the show notes. 01:29:42.072 --> 01:29:43.392 Or at least link to his website. 01:29:43.774 --> 01:29:44.009 Gab: That's awesome. 01:29:44.009 --> 01:29:44.669 Jody: He'll have it on there. 01:29:44.842 --> 01:29:46.025 But, uh, yeah. 01:29:46.549 --> 01:29:48.765 Another fun fact about Paul, he's a grave cleaner. 01:29:49.220 --> 01:29:50.055 Gab: Yes. 01:29:50.655 --> 01:29:52.095 I've always wanted to get into that. 01:29:52.409 --> 01:29:52.679 Yeah. 01:29:52.679 --> 01:29:54.456 He told me about the equipment he uses. 01:29:54.506 --> 01:29:54.786 Jody: Yeah. 01:29:55.586 --> 01:29:55.926 Yeah. 01:29:56.936 --> 01:29:59.086 Gab: He's a fun conversation all the time. 01:30:01.446 --> 01:30:02.647 I enjoy talking to Paul. 01:30:03.206 --> 01:30:05.406 I do have a story that we didn't. 01:30:05.653 --> 01:30:09.463 Talk about in our conversation if you wanna hear it And it is 01:30:09.463 --> 01:30:12.943 from Vermont, so it's sticking with the theme for the episode. 01:30:13.468 --> 01:30:15.028 Jody: Are you upset that you didn't bring this up? 01:30:15.028 --> 01:30:15.831 When we had Paul on, 01:30:16.165 --> 01:30:18.415 Gab: I am a little sad 'cause I would've liked to hear his opinion. 01:30:18.651 --> 01:30:18.905 Jody: Yeah. 01:30:20.305 --> 01:30:21.395 Gab: And what he knows about 01:30:21.610 --> 01:30:22.634 Jody: Oh, he definitely would've known something about it. 01:30:22.684 --> 01:30:26.536 Gab: He would've, and some stories that relate to it. 01:30:27.095 --> 01:30:27.845 Jody: Alright, so what do you got? 01:30:28.452 --> 01:30:32.085 Gab: So it's John Porter Bauman, Bow-man?. 01:30:32.185 --> 01:30:32.535 Jody: Okay. 01:30:33.036 --> 01:30:36.878 Gab: And his family is from cuttings, Vermont. 01:30:37.295 --> 01:30:38.015 So. 01:30:38.516 --> 01:30:42.567 John's two daughters and his wife passed away prematurely. 01:30:43.167 --> 01:30:45.565 not like prematurely like that, but they were young. 01:30:46.028 --> 01:30:47.187 When they had passed away. 01:30:47.877 --> 01:30:54.334 So he's so consumed in his grief, in the loss of his family that he 01:30:54.394 --> 01:31:00.188 goes and he buys this home that is right across the street. 01:31:00.578 --> 01:31:04.238 From the cemetery where his family is buried. 01:31:04.741 --> 01:31:09.931 So he even goes as far as one of their daughters passed away 01:31:10.171 --> 01:31:12.121 prior to being in that area. 01:31:12.331 --> 01:31:17.401 So he has the body moved into the new cemetery and he builds 01:31:17.401 --> 01:31:18.901 this beautiful mausoleum. 01:31:18.901 --> 01:31:20.911 It really is gorgeous. 01:31:21.100 --> 01:31:23.511 if you get the chance, you should definitely look at it. 01:31:23.511 --> 01:31:27.281 There's like stairs and then there's like a statue of him right outside of it. 01:31:27.281 --> 01:31:28.331 It's really beautiful. 01:31:28.901 --> 01:31:33.569 And they also say that the statue of him outside the mausoleum, 01:31:33.854 --> 01:31:35.274 it's rumored to be haunted. 01:31:36.204 --> 01:31:42.556 So John had kind of planned that his family would someday, reincarnate 01:31:42.556 --> 01:31:44.746 because he believes in reincarnation. 01:31:45.046 --> 01:31:47.536 So he's of the belief that someday his family is going to 01:31:47.536 --> 01:31:49.216 rise from the dead and come back. 01:31:49.638 --> 01:31:53.271 So he has this 21 room mansion built 01:31:53.748 --> 01:31:56.775 and every day should they come back? 01:31:57.205 --> 01:31:58.391 The clocks are wound. 01:31:58.421 --> 01:32:00.158 There's a fire in the fireplace. 01:32:00.308 --> 01:32:04.118 the lights are on, and there's a hot meal on the table. 01:32:04.450 --> 01:32:05.273 Jody: So how does that work? 01:32:05.273 --> 01:32:06.743 You just, you build this giant mansion. 01:32:06.743 --> 01:32:07.643 You what, what do you leave it to? 01:32:07.643 --> 01:32:08.783 Family to take care of. 01:32:08.783 --> 01:32:09.143 Is that, 01:32:09.428 --> 01:32:10.868 Gab: So He left it in a trust. 01:32:11.420 --> 01:32:14.490 He left $50,000 in the trust. 01:32:14.760 --> 01:32:21.420 And from 1881 to 1969, when the money ran out, they were maintaining the 01:32:21.420 --> 01:32:24.210 home to John standards every day. 01:32:24.690 --> 01:32:27.000 Jody: That's amazing that that money lasted that long, 01:32:27.090 --> 01:32:27.420 Gab: right? 01:32:27.720 --> 01:32:28.050 Jody: Yeah. 01:32:28.474 --> 01:32:32.674 Gab: so the home now is actually a museum and you can go and see the home, and you 01:32:32.674 --> 01:32:34.474 can go to the cemetery across the street. 01:32:34.529 --> 01:32:35.494 Jody: So you're, you're planning a trip. 01:32:35.764 --> 01:32:37.114 Is that, is that what's going on here? 01:32:37.114 --> 01:32:37.244 Is it, 01:32:37.244 --> 01:32:37.644 Gab: I love a reason 01:32:37.729 --> 01:32:38.609 to go to New England. 01:32:38.619 --> 01:32:39.669 Jody: Planning a trip in your head? 01:32:39.953 --> 01:32:40.259 Gab: Yeah. 01:32:40.269 --> 01:32:41.359 I've never been to Vermont. 01:32:42.029 --> 01:32:42.249 No. 01:32:42.379 --> 01:32:42.975 I never have. 01:32:43.409 --> 01:32:45.209 Maybe you Paul in person drive through 01:32:45.584 --> 01:32:46.274 Jody: No, I don't think we 01:32:46.439 --> 01:32:46.859 Gab: No, 01:32:47.217 --> 01:32:47.607 Jody: Huh. 01:32:48.052 --> 01:32:48.232 Gab: Yeah. 01:32:48.232 --> 01:32:49.255 I've never been up that far. 01:32:49.267 --> 01:32:50.437 Jody: It's not that far either. 01:32:50.662 --> 01:32:50.992 Gab: No. 01:32:52.247 --> 01:32:52.727 Jody: Couple hours. 01:32:52.767 --> 01:32:54.687 Well, it's more than a couple hours, but still, I mean- 01:32:54.687 --> 01:32:56.547 Gab: You break it up like stop in Boson. 01:32:56.616 --> 01:32:57.447 Stop in Connecticut. 01:32:57.467 --> 01:32:58.177 Jody: Yeah, exactly. 01:32:58.257 --> 01:32:58.397 Yeah. 01:32:58.522 --> 01:32:59.932 Gab: Do a little New England tour. 01:32:59.932 --> 01:33:01.267 Jody: Well, it can't be that bad, you know? 01:33:01.627 --> 01:33:02.137 Gab: It's not. 01:33:02.776 --> 01:33:04.126 So yeah, that's my story. 01:33:04.126 --> 01:33:05.240 I think I found it, 01:33:05.240 --> 01:33:08.916 when I was younger I used to like to watch the shows that would talk 01:33:08.916 --> 01:33:10.686 about, like, legends like this. 01:33:10.691 --> 01:33:10.761 Jody: Mm-hmm. 01:33:11.073 --> 01:33:14.223 Gab: So I'm sure I probably found it from one of those shows. 01:33:14.283 --> 01:33:17.643 Jody: Another random fact to build in your, uh, in your, your mind there 01:33:17.793 --> 01:33:18.343 Gab: Yeah. 01:33:18.463 --> 01:33:20.233 And then I was like, wait. 01:33:20.551 --> 01:33:24.658 That guy who had like the house and he would always keep 01:33:24.658 --> 01:33:26.545 it ready for his family back. 01:33:26.911 --> 01:33:28.471 I was like, where was he from? 01:33:28.471 --> 01:33:32.041 I think he was somewhere like in New England and then I got lucky 01:33:32.041 --> 01:33:33.391 that he was actually in Vermont. 01:33:33.391 --> 01:33:37.051 So I put it in the notes to discuss with Paul, but then we never got to it. 01:33:37.351 --> 01:33:38.141 Jody: Well paul, let us know. 01:33:38.141 --> 01:33:38.161 Gab: Yeah Paul. 01:33:39.530 --> 01:33:40.079 Jody: Leave a Comment. 01:33:40.349 --> 01:33:40.569 You know, 01:33:41.089 --> 01:33:42.319 shoot us a text, whatever. 01:33:42.922 --> 01:33:46.271 Gab: Yeah, we'll have to have a conversation at another time about it. 01:33:46.796 --> 01:33:48.026 Jody: Speaking of comments, okay. 01:33:48.401 --> 01:33:48.761 Gab: Okay. 01:33:49.046 --> 01:33:50.336 Jody: Or could everybody find us Gabrielle? 01:33:50.631 --> 01:33:53.547 Gab: PodcastOfTheParanormal.com. 01:33:54.002 --> 01:33:55.932 Jody: And recently we just updated our logo 01:33:56.037 --> 01:33:56.337 Gab: Yes. 01:33:56.337 --> 01:33:58.617 We have a new logo for everyone. 01:33:59.052 --> 01:34:01.272 Jody: So, uh, it's very personal to us. 01:34:01.557 --> 01:34:02.517 Gab: Yeah, very excited. 01:34:02.772 --> 01:34:04.362 Jody: we're glad to get it out there. 01:34:04.362 --> 01:34:06.222 And we'd like to know what everybody thinks. 01:34:06.690 --> 01:34:11.670 Gab: So if you're interested in coming on the show, discussing any experiences 01:34:11.670 --> 01:34:15.090 you might have had, we do have a contact form right on the website. 01:34:15.585 --> 01:34:15.735 Jody: Yeah. 01:34:16.453 --> 01:34:18.000 Gab: feel free, send us a message. 01:34:18.000 --> 01:34:19.093 We'd love to talk to you and 01:34:19.093 --> 01:34:20.625 Jody: and let us know what you think of the new logo. 01:34:20.700 --> 01:34:21.060 Gab: Yeah. 01:34:21.377 --> 01:34:22.037 Jody: Alright everybody. 01:34:22.037 --> 01:34:22.877 Thanks for listening. 01:34:23.027 --> 01:34:23.974 Gab: Thank you for listening.